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Thread: Sleeve.

  1. #1
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    Sleeve.

    I have seen that many people make sleeves to lessen the twang from cut to size beer cans.
    I would like to try something that's not homemade.
    The dimensions I need are 22mm o/d x 21mm i/d x 170mm length. I have looked on the internet and the nearest I can find is carbon tubing but the thinnest wall is 1mm which brings the i/d down to 20mm.
    I even went round the supermarket and B&Q with my vernier gauge measuring anything that looked anywhere near my requirements (I got some odd looks when measuring vitamin pill containers, mop handles etc).
    Does anyone know of a manufacturer that makes tubing of this size or even if this is an avenue worth going down?
    Last edited by gtfreight; 14-01-2018 at 08:09 AM.

  2. #2
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    Morning gtfreight, have you thought of using Ptfe sheeting which is easily bought on the Internet. It comes in varying thicknesses ie .50 mil .75 mil and 1.0 mil thickness very easy to use and makes excellent piston liners. I have used almost everything steel and aluminium beer cans pop and fairy liquid bottles and have found Ptfe sheet makes the best piston liners when correctly fitted and lubed.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtfreight View Post
    I have seen that many people make sleeves to lessen the twang from cut to size beer cans.
    I would like to try something that's not homemade.
    The dimensions I need are 22mm o/d x 21mm i/d x 170mm length. I have looked on the internet and the nearest I can find is carbon tubing but the thinnest wall is 1mm which brings the i/d down to 20mm.
    I even went round the supermarket and B&Q with my vernier gauge measuring anything that looked anywhere near my requirements (I got some odd looks when measuring vitamin pill containers, mop handles etc).
    Does anyone know of a manufacturer that makes tubing of this size or even if this is an avenue worth going down?
    I only fit sleeves to prevent any lube migrating from the spring.

    A correct sized spring and a set of delrin guides, coupled with the rifle being set up correctly should remove ALL twang.

    On a traditional (even home made) sleeve, the end that goes to the front of the piston has "teeth" that are bent over. This enables the spring / top hat to keep the sleeve in place.
    If you're considering a tube, you'd need to bond it to the inside of the piston to keep it in place.

    I'd say a complete waste of time.
    some rifles, not too many but definitely not enough

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtfreight View Post
    I have seen that many people make sleeves to lessen the twang from cut to size beer cans.
    I would like to try something that's not homemade.
    The dimensions I need are 22mm o/d x 21mm i/d x 170mm length. I have looked on the internet and the nearest I can find is carbon tubing but the thinnest wall is 1mm which brings the i/d down to 20mm.
    I even went round the supermarket and B&Q with my vernier gauge measuring anything that looked anywhere near my requirements (I got some odd looks when measuring vitamin pill containers, mop handles etc).
    Does anyone know of a manufacturer that makes tubing of this size or even if this is an avenue worth going down?
    Quote Originally Posted by robs5230 View Post
    On a traditional (even home made) sleeve, the end that goes to the front of the piston has "teeth" that are bent over. This enables the spring / top hat to keep the sleeve in place.
    If you're considering a tube, you'd need to bond it to the inside of the piston to keep it in place.

    I'd say a complete waste of time.
    I know where you're coming from, Gary.

    Rob, not a waste of time, it's just that Gary used the wrong wording there with "tube". He means the little cylindrical containers like the vitamin C types of things with a closed end. I've sometimes played with this idea also and wondered if any of them might be the correct size for certain pistons, but never went as far as going round shops with the verniers.
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  5. #5
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    I use aluminium beer can after cutting a template out in paper (which saves a lot of cuts from the razor sharp metal).

    Part of the fun of doing this is producing the basic material. Its amazing how many attempts it takes to get the right empty can.

    ATB
    Ian

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyL View Post
    I know where you're coming from, Gary.

    Rob, not a waste of time, it's just that Gary used the wrong wording there with "tube". He means the little cylindrical containers like the vitamin C types of things with a closed end. I've sometimes played with this idea also and wondered if any of them might be the correct size for certain pistons, but never went as far as going round shops with the verniers.
    This is what I was thinking, using the base of the container to hold the spring in place. I was even looking at some 22mm plasic piping but I would have had to somehow open the inside diameter up to 21mm and leave the last mm original to act as a lip and I'm thinking this would be nearly impossible.
    Delrin guides aren't going to work as the guides are built into the piston and trigger housing.
    Perhaps the best solution would be to source a correctly sized spring?
    A quick question if I may, does a spring's diameter increase when compressed?

  7. #7
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    Yes ... diameter increases when compressed. Not a lot, but it does. You can, if you want, calculate roughly how much by thinking of the space between two coils forming one side of a right angled triangle, half the outside diameter forming another side and the inside point on this line going to the next uppermost outer coil point as the hypotenuse. Pythagoras will give you the hypot length. Subtract half the od from this and you have the extra od you get from compressing the spring to coil bound. In essence, the hypot becomes the new od. Only approx but pretty good. This sounds complicated but if you draw it out it becomes easy.
    I have know springs be a 'good' fit in a piston, or after fitting a piston sleeve, that they cannot be compressed to cock the rifle as the spring becomes too fat to compress in the piston.
    Cheers, Phil

  8. #8
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    Would the shock from the spring on the piston not smash the bottom of the plastic tube ? Delrin is a stronger than most of plastic these containers would be made of i would assume and PTFE too. The plastic used in the containers would be more brittle at the closed end .

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bighit View Post
    Would the shock from the spring on the piston not smash the bottom of the plastic tube ? Delrin is a stronger than most of plastic these containers would be made of i would assume and PTFE too. The plastic used in the containers would be more brittle at the closed end .
    Yes. When I bought an EX88 new all those years ago, it had a plastic tube as a piston sleeve, sealed where it sits on the inside of the piston. When I stripped the rifle to correct a power issue (ott) I found the end of the tube had detached from the sides .. very neatly. I mentioned this to Air Arms at a fair (Midland??) and they sent me a new sleeve tube.
    Cheers, Phil

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtfreight View Post

    Delrin guides aren't going to work as the guides are built into the piston and trigger housing.
    Perhaps the best solution would be to source a correctly sized spring?

    There's your problem! Have you ever wondered why no car manufacturer has ever welded the suspension solid to increase comfort?
    Brmmmm, Brmmmm

  11. #11
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    Tube ends can form well into teeth.
    Easier with plastic and hair dryer.

  12. #12
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    A correct piston sleeve will be made of shim steel, by somebody like V-Mach.

    I've never fitted a plastic milk container or a beer can in my guns - and I ain't about to neither.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenbacker View Post
    A correct piston sleeve will be made of shim steel, by somebody like V-Mach.

    I've never fitted a plastic milk container or a beer can in my guns - and I ain't about to neither.
    Do V-Mch use special shim steel or can any old shim steel do?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by I. J. View Post
    Do V-Mch use special shim steel or can any old shim steel do?
    Yeah, it's 'proper' shim steel I believe, Ian.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenbacker View Post
    A correct piston sleeve will be made of shim steel, by somebody like V-Mach.
    Steel?! V-Mach?! A correct piston sleeve will be made of unobtainium by God or the Holy Ghost.

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