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Thread: Webley Horseshoe Target Holder

  1. #1
    pjbingham is offline My mother was flexible,but couldn't do Thursdays
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    Webley Horseshoe Target Holder

    Hi, I can’t seem to find out very much about the early Webley ‘Horseshoe’ target holders. I’ve seen an advert for them and it appears they came in x2 sizes but I cannot find an actual photo of one and asking around it appears the usual suspects that I’d have guessed would have seen one haven’t either.
    To cut a long story short it dosnt appear that I will ever find one to buy so I’m going to make a replica.
    The dimensions of both versions are in the original advertisement but I don’t know what size to construct the Horseshoe part. The advert shows them with a target in place and although I have a number of vintage Targets I don’t have that version. Would anybody have an original target that they would be kind enough to either photocopy or measure for me please so that I can start the build? The idea is that once I know the dimensions I will endeavour to find a modern easy to purchase equivalent that I can actually use.
    Any help or advice appreciated,Atb Phil.
    PS, have any of you actually seen one of the original target holders?

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    Hi Phil. No I have never seen one before, been looking for the last 30 years! I have seen the adverts for these with the appropriate card target but I have never even seen the card target! I would love one for my collection. I think the card targets will be the same size as the later ones. My 1937? green coloured catalogue shows Horseshoe target sizes as 10 x10 1 inch and 6.5 x 6.5 x 1 inch, my Jan 1938 catalogue shows the now square holder at the same sizes.
    Regards Paul

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    ive never saw one before

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    pjbingham is offline My mother was flexible,but couldn't do Thursdays
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    Thanks Gents, it would be great to hear from someone who does have one but for something that was sold by Webley they now appear nonexistent.
    The size of the target and in particular the roundel part is important as I want to make a replica as close to original as possible,not to deceive in anyway I hasten to add.

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    As we're given the dimensions of the box it's quite straight forward to calculate the ID and OD of the horseshoe by scale, I'll print the advert and work it out for you if you like ?

    image.jpeg

    All the best Mick

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    pjbingham is offline My mother was flexible,but couldn't do Thursdays
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    Quote Originally Posted by T 20 View Post
    As we're given the dimensions of the box it's quite straight forward to calculate the ID and OD of the horseshoe by scale, I'll print the advert and work it out for you if you like ?

    image.jpeg

    All the best Mick
    Thanks Mick that would be good. Out of interest have you seen a genuine one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by T 20 View Post
    As we're given the dimensions of the box it's quite straight forward to calculate the ID and OD of the horseshoe by scale, I'll print the advert and work it out for you if you like ?

    image.jpeg

    All the best Mick

    Yes please, Mick, I have already done this so it will be interesting to see how close I am, and to cross reference the results...my results below.

    Target overall size given as 10" x 10" x 1". It appears to be closed off at the edges top and bottom but open at the sides?...

    Front plate = 11" x 10" x 1/8" steel sheet blank folded to form a 10" square with a 1/2" returned edges folded at 90 degrees top and bottom. Possibly with a 6" circle cut out the middle?...the centres for what look like four rivets fixing front plate to back plate are 1/2" from sides and 1-1/2" from top and bottom edges.

    Back plate = 10" x 10" x 1/8" steel plate. The piece of steel cut out from the front plate is fixed to backplate opposite the opening in the front plate to strengthen the back plate?...or just make it from 1/4" instead.


    Horse shoe = 1" wide - 8" OD x 6" ID x 1/4" thick steel circle blank - horseshoe shape is 8" wide and 6" high - use a paper template 8" x 6" rectangle to mark where to cut the top of circle for the overall shape. Looks like rivet fixings a 3,6 and 9 o'clock. A small washer placed on rivet between horse shoe and front plate to create a standoff for the target card to sit in?...alternatively the back of the horse shoe is milled out to accept the target card...The W & S lettering is about 1/2" high, letter spacing will have to be set out on the fly before stamping...

    Card target is about 6-1/4" wide x 7" high, printed target area is about 5-1/2" wide, ten scoring rings spaced 25/64" apart, the bull is about 1-38/64" (10mm spacing for the rings, 40mm for the bull looks about right ) Can not quite read what is printed at the top of the target?...
    blah blah

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    Quote Originally Posted by pjbingham View Post
    Thanks Mick that would be good. Out of interest have you seen a genuine one?
    Unfortunately not PJ, I'm not a dedicated collector like some of the other fine folks of this section.

    I do however have a bit of experience reproducing vintage machinery parts from photographs for a local museum.

    After altering the contrast on the picture of the target it's construction becomes a little clearer, showing the position of the three rivets holding the horseshoe on :-

    image.jpeg

    For simplicity the horseshoe could be cast in Aluminium.



    All the best Mick

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCL_dave View Post
    Yes please, Mick, I have already done this so it will be interesting to see how close I am, and to cross reference the results...my results below.

    Target overall size given as 10" x 10" x 1". It appears to be closed off at the edges top and bottom but open at the sides?...

    Front plate = 11" x 10" x 1/8" steel sheet blank folded to form a 10" square with a 1/2" returned edges folded at 90 degrees top and bottom. Possibly with a 6" circle cut out the middle?...the centres for what look like four rivets fixing front plate to back plate are 1/2" from sides and 1-1/2" from top and bottom edges.

    Back plate = 10" x 10" x 1/8" steel plate. The piece of steel cut out from the front plate is fixed to backplate opposite the opening in the front plate to strengthen the back plate?...or just make it from 1/4" instead.


    Horse shoe = 1" wide - 8" OD x 6" ID x 1/4" thick steel circle blank - horseshoe shape is 8" wide and 6" high - use a paper template 8" x 6" rectangle to mark where to cut the top of circle for the overall shape. Looks like rivet fixings a 3,6 and 9 o'clock. A small washer placed on rivet between horse shoe and front plate to create a standoff for the target card to sit in?...alternatively the back of the horse shoe is milled out to accept the target card...The W & S lettering is about 1/2" high, letter spacing will have to be set out on the fly before stamping...

    Card target is about 6-1/4" wide x 7" high, printed target area is about 5-1/2" wide, ten scoring rings spaced 25/64" apart, the bull is about 1-38/64" (10mm spacing for the rings, 40mm for the bull looks about right ) Can not quite read what is printed at the top of the target?...
    Basically about the same as I've just measured, Dave.

    Though I made the target 6 3/8" wide by 7" tall and the three horseshoe rivets are on a 7" diameter so the washers between the horshoe and front plate would be 5/16" OD for a snug fit of the target.

    But I think you have it spot with the fabrication method and the important dimensions.




    All the best Mick

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    pjbingham is offline My mother was flexible,but couldn't do Thursdays
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    Mick & Dave Thankyou both and apologies to Dave as he had already included some info on another thread and me being me I forgot
    Will need to find a suitable modern target to fit it otherwise there are three choices, shoot at original vintage targets(which isn’t going to happen) Don’t actually use it(the idea is to have a usable one) or change the dimensions of the horseshoe slightly to fit the nearest available modern day target.
    As an aside Mick have you ever done any threads on the museum related parts you have made? Sounds very interesting.
    Atb Phil

  11. #11
    pjbingham is offline My mother was flexible,but couldn't do Thursdays
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    Ps. How well would an aluminium ‘horseshoe’ stand up to a large number of pellet strikes over time I wonder?

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    Quote Originally Posted by T 20 View Post
    Basically about the same as I've just measured, Dave.

    Though I made the target 6 3/8" wide by 7" tall and the three horseshoe rivets are on a 7" diameter so the washers between the horshoe and front plate would be 5/16" OD for a snug fit of the target.

    But I think you have it spot with the fabrication method and the important dimensions.




    All the best Mick
    Thanks Mick

    Quote Originally Posted by pjbingham View Post
    Mick & Dave Thankyou both and apologies to Dave as he had already included some info on another thread and me being me I forgot
    Will need to find a suitable modern target to fit it otherwise there are three choices, shoot at original vintage targets(which isn’t going to happen) Don’t actually use it(the idea is to have a usable one) or change the dimensions of the horseshoe slightly to fit the nearest available modern day target.
    As an aside Mick have you ever done any threads on the museum related parts you have made? Sounds very interesting.
    Atb Phil
    No probs, and the more results we have to cross reference gives us a more accurate interpretation to work from.

    The card target is a bit of a ballache...to make a mock-up I was thinking, print off the text in notepad/wordpad using a similar looking font and just draw the rings with a compass...might look a bit crap but will serve the purpose!...and if it looks ok then just scan it and print


    Edit: ...and another hair-brained scheme would be to get a bit of plate, turn the rings and stamp the numbering and lettering, then take a lead impression to print from...et' voila' - a homemade old school lead typeface printing block!... as I said, hair-brained
    Last edited by DCL_dave; 18-01-2018 at 08:09 AM.
    blah blah

  13. #13
    pjbingham is offline My mother was flexible,but couldn't do Thursdays
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    [QUOTE=DCL_dave;7416137]Thanks Mick



    No probs, and the more results we have to cross reference gives us a more accurate interpretation to work from.

    Cheers Dave, I always have a number of projects on the go and other ideas taking form in my head and then the same at work.....what can I say,I get confused and yes your right it dosnt hurt to have a fresh set of eyes on something and their thoughts and ideas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pjbingham View Post
    Mick & Dave Thankyou both and apologies to Dave as he had already included some info on another thread and me being me I forgot
    Will need to find a suitable modern target to fit it otherwise there are three choices, shoot at original vintage targets(which isn’t going to happen) Don’t actually use it(the idea is to have a usable one) or change the dimensions of the horseshoe slightly to fit the nearest available modern day target.
    As an aside Mick have you ever done any threads on the museum related parts you have made? Sounds very interesting.
    Atb Phil
    Quote Originally Posted by pjbingham View Post
    Ps. How well would an aluminium ‘horseshoe’ stand up to a large number of pellet strikes over time I wonder?
    If you could find an original target card, you could simply scan and print them onto light card, so having an endless supply of them, Phil.
    If you can't find an original target card, you could draw a master from Dave's dimensions and simply scan and print an endless supply off from that.

    I think an aluminium horseshoe 1/4" - 5/16" thick should last long enough for occasional use --- I thought the idea is to hit the target card though.

    The small privately owned museum I work for is dedicated to Harry Ferguson, so probably not of great interest to members.
    Another problem is that I've never photographed anything I've ever made for them, they just bring me a photograph of something and I reproduce it.
    The most interesting thing I've done for the museum is repair a completely destroyed Ferguson T20 tractor seat.
    When the seat was brought to me, I pointed out that new reproduction seats were available for just £25 so why bother mending the old one --- they replied that Winston Churchill wouldn't have sat on a new one.
    The seat they had was from one of Winston Churchill's Fergusons, it turns out that Harry Ferguson and Winston Churchill were good friends.

    image.jpeg

    Churchill seated with Ferguson to his right.
    Last edited by T 20; 18-01-2018 at 08:29 AM.

  15. #15
    pjbingham is offline My mother was flexible,but couldn't do Thursdays
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    Quote Originally Posted by T 20 View Post
    If you could find an original target card, you could simply scan and print them onto light card, so having an endless supply of them, Phil.
    If you can't find an original target card, you could draw a master from Dave's dimensions and simply scan and print an endless supply off from that.

    I think an aluminium horseshoe 1/4" - 5/16" thick should last long enough for occasional use --- I thought the idea is to hit the target card though.

    The small privately owned museum I work for is dedicated to Harry Ferguson, so probably not of great interest to members.
    Another problem is that I've never photographed anything I've ever made for them, they just bring me a photograph of something and I reproduce it.
    The most interesting thing I've done for the museum is repair a completely destroyed Ferguson T20 tractor seat.
    When the seat was brought to me, I pointed out that new reproduction seats were available for just £25 so why bother mending the old one --- they replied that Winston Churchill wouldn't have sat on a new one.
    The seat they had was from one of Winston Churchill's Fergusons, it turns out that Harry Ferguson and Winston Churchill were good friends.

    image.jpeg

    Churchill seated with Ferguson to his right.
    Ah I see.....I get the ‘T20’ user name connection now. I think there would be quite some interest in the subject tbh. Many people wouldn’t know about Tractors but upon questioning they would still be able to identify a little Grey Fergie,it’s kind of the Mini or Beetle org the Tractor world I guess.
    The Winston Churchill connection would have been an interesting piece to work on.
    The comment about hitting the target rather than the horseshoe is a fair one however I freely admit that my enthusiasm for old things outweighs my level of marksmanship by some degree

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