Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: The "Gem" and who owned the rights to it....

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Hereford
    Posts
    394

    The "Gem" and who owned the rights to it....

    Over the last couple of weeks I have been preparing another article for transfer across to my website. It's one I published a year ago on my Facebook page. This particular article, the Haviland and Gunn "Morse" article and the Quackenbush article are all intertwined with each other. I noticed that the "Gem" air rifle is common in all three.

    Haviland and Gunn (well probably just Gunn) designed the combined cartridge and air rifle as well as just an air rifle version that we call today the Gem. He later sold his business to Quackenbush in 1882 (or perhaps 1880) who produced the rifle himself and licensed it to various German manufacturers. However, Quackenbush did not initially patent the design. Of course why would he, it was already available on the market from as early as 1871, and, afterall, he didn't design it.

    Quackenbush did eventually patent his own design for the "combined" rifle in 1887, at least 5 years after he acquired Gunn's designs. I'll come back to this in a minute.

    Gunn left Quackenbush in 1885. In fact he left on the very same day that he filed his repeating "Gem" air rifle patent. But that's besides the point.

    In 1884, Theodor Bergmann (yes, that guy responsible for the Bergmann automatic pistols) licensed the combined Gem design from Quackenbush. But later in 1886, he (and his business partner Michael Flurscheim) cheekily raised their own patent for this design in Great Britain! Now, as far as I know, Quackenbush did not have a patent in GB at this time to cover "his" IPR.

    My theory is that Quackenbush had no intention of raising a patent for the combined rifle as he thought it probably would be rejected as it had been in the public domain for about 10 years (he bought H&G in 1882 - or maybe 1880). But when he found out that Bergmann had been granted a patent in GB for "his" IPR and that Eisenwerke Gaggenau's products were being sold in the US, he may have decided he had to try to do something to protect his IPR in the US. But it took him a whole year after the Bergmann GB patent grant date to file his own.

    So I wonder if that explains why it took so long for Quackenbush to file "his" combined cartridge and air rifle patent.

    But what a superb blow from Bergmann. To raise and be granted a patent in GB and its territories.... it potentially gave him the right to impose a license on anyone who tried to distribute the rifle in any British territory (which in the late 19th century was perhaps the whole of the British empire!).

    Thoughts?

    All the best,
    Jimmie

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    weymouth
    Posts
    2,986
    Great stuff, Jimmie...Asa Petengill (or Pentengill?) ...is another name to look at may be?
    blah blah

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    City of London
    Posts
    9,760
    This reminds me, there's an amusing account of a legal dispute over the trademark 'Gem here.
    Vintage Airguns Gallery
    ..Above link posted with permission from Gareth W-B
    In British slang an anorak is a person who has a very strong interest in niche subjects.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Hereford
    Posts
    394
    Quote Originally Posted by Garvin View Post
    This reminds me, there's an amusing account of a legal dispute over the trademark 'Gem here.
    Thanks Danny. That's useful information about the legal use of the name "Gem" and that these air rifles were being imported in at least 1883 in GB. Bergmann obviously didn't have any IPR rights to the "air rifle" in GB but perhaps did for the combined cartridge and air rifle design via his patent.

    All the best,
    Jimmie

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    City of London
    Posts
    9,760
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmieDee View Post
    Thanks Danny. That's useful information about the legal use of the name "Gem" and that these air rifles were being imported in at least 1883 in GB. Bergmann obviously didn't have any IPR rights to the "air rifle" in GB but perhaps did for the combined cartridge and air rifle design via his patent.

    All the best,
    Jimmie
    Apologies Jimmie, I hadn't dated the cutting - it was August 1886.
    Vintage Airguns Gallery
    ..Above link posted with permission from Gareth W-B
    In British slang an anorak is a person who has a very strong interest in niche subjects.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Saxmundham
    Posts
    1,508
    It may not have any connection and I could have misunderstood but I was told by someone with a little practical experience of patents that the US system differs from our own ref dating. In the UK a provisional patent can be filed and then after a period of time searches and challenges are made out and examined. If all is well the patent is granted and protection is backdated to the original application. In the US the system is different regarding timing and dates. Searches and challenges are examined first and if all is ok the patent granted and protection given from the date of that approval.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Hereford
    Posts
    394
    Quote Originally Posted by DCL_dave View Post
    Great stuff, Jimmie...Asa Petengill (or Pentengill?) ...is another name to look at may be?
    With patents, the devil is in the claims and in Pettengill's patent, his first claim appears to be centralised on how the stock is attached to the barrel. Neither the first nor the second claims describe a combined cartridge and airgun design. Thus Pettengill's patent did not cover Haviland and Gunn's combined rifle design.

    All the best,
    Jimmie

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •