Are springers stuck in the 80s?

[eyebull]

Sounds like a Webley MkII Service.

I forgot to say: But not hideous

[Geezer]

If it won't withstand multiple dry fires with an acceptably low risk of unintentional internal disassembly, it's not a marketable proposition.

I kind of share Alistair's pessimism. It's why I started the thread. Apart from scope-oriented stock design, I see very little performance difference between a 70s FWB124/7 or 1980 (FAC preferred) HW80 and what you can get now from a factory as a b/b springer. Arguably the earlier 77s are superior to new ones. Ditto the TX - no real improvement over nearly 30 years.

I do though wonder about a mid-weight, very well-made (but suited to mass production) 22-24mm tube springer. Optimised for the highest possible efficiency in transferring stored spring energy to the pellet. Maybe with a reliable, lightweight, recoil-suppression system (perhaps a hydraulic buffer like the LG250?). They could do (Tomahawk/Longbow) a long powerful one for the Americans, and a short one for 12 ft-lbs/16J. In a well-designed scope-optimised, adjustable stock (in Glock-quality engineering plastic?) with an M1913 rail on top.

I'd get one of those. Well, I say I would, but I already have a fair few great springers. I'd definitely get it if they told everyone that this post on the BBS persuaded them to make it. And gave me serial number 00001, free, with my name engraved on it.

Air Arms - go for it!

[Mr.Fixit-Norm]

My first and last gas-powered gun was a half-full R-White's lemonade bottle and a Toffo sweet. Lack of a barrel meant that it didn't develop anywhere near its power potential and accuracy was lacking, but it was great fun. And that is what it is all about. Get yourself a couple of lengths of plastic tubing - or an old bicycle pump - and put on your experimenter's coat... then try it out on a cheap break barrel. Got to start somewhere!

I might just do that ! I remembered that at the back of my gun cupboard I have an old no name cheap Chinese springer that was given to me a few years ago by a work colleague who found it in the garage when he moved into a new house, and not being into airguns gave it to me.
Having tried the gun it was crap, massive twang when fired and had the accuracy of a shotgun at 20yrds.plus a stock that look like it was made from a shiney lacquered floorboard !

I tried re-crowning the barrel ( actually it was putting a crown on it ! It didn't appear to have one in the first place ) and I cleaned and lightly greased the spring ; it barely improved it so I put it back in the cupboard meaning to cut it up and bin it

I'm now thinking it would be the ideal candidate to try out my magnetic power plant ! It won't help the accuracy ( well I doubt it ) but it wouldn't cost me too much to try out my idea! , neodymium magnets aren't too expensive and I have some PTFE rod around 30mm dia and an old but serviceable 3 1/2" M series 1945 Myford lathe......

It may take a while but to quote Arnie.... I'll be back !

Norm

[Geezer]

I forgot to say: But not hideous

MkII Services are beautifully made, charismatic, iconic, historic. And generally just loveable, like a non-mental rescue dog.

But they are a fundamentally poor design, brilliantly made, marketed and remembered. You want the piston going away from you, then back at you a bit, then away again, not the reverse. And you want to deliver the air straight to the pellet, not back a bit, up a bit, forward a bit.

I'd definitely own one (and like it for all of the reasons above) if they weren't silly money. I still might some time.

[Geezer]

I might just do that ! I remembered that at the back of my gun cupboard I have an old no name cheap Chinese springer that was given to me a few years ago by a work colleague who found it in the garage when he moved into a new house, and not being into airguns gave it to me.
Having tried the gun it was crap, massive twang when fired and had the accuracy of a shotgun at 20yrds.plus a stock that look like it was made from a shiney lacquered floorboard !

I tried re-crowning the barrel ( actually it was putting a crown on it ! It didn't appear to have one in the first place ) and I cleaned and lightly greased the spring ; it barely improved it so I put it back in the cupboard meaning to cut it up and bin it

I'm now thinking it would be the ideal candidate to try out my magnetic power plant ! It won't help the accuracy ( well I doubt it ) but it wouldn't cost me too much to try out my idea! , neodymium magnets aren't too expensive and I have some PTFE rod around 30mm dia and an old but serviceable 3 1/2" M series 1945 Myford lathe......

It may take a while but to quote Arnie.... I'll be back !

Norm

Great stuff! Look forward to the results.

[eyebull]

MkII Services are beautifully made, charismatic, iconic, historic. And generally just loveable, like a non-mental rescue dog.

If the Webley Service was a rescue dog:

But they are a fundamentally poor design, brilliantly made, marketed and remembered. You want the piston going away from you, then back at you a bit, then away again, not the reverse. And you want to deliver the air straight to the pellet, not back a bit, up a bit, forward a bit.

Not an issue if it's recoilless, see?

[Rickenbacker]

It may take a while but to quote Arnie.... I'll be back !

Norm

It might be nice to have the beginning of the stroke powered by repelling magnets, then the end of the stroke done by attracting magnets?

You've probably thought of that already, Norm.

[Geezer]

If the Webley Service was a rescue dog:





Not an issue if it's recoilless, see?

Yeah, alright, you work that out. Roll on the MkII Service SR!

[BTDT]

It might be nice to have the beginning of the stroke powered by repelling magnets, then the end of the stroke done by attracting magnets?

You've probably thought of that already, Norm.

How about a stack of opposing neodymium magnets, Phil?

A certain magazine writer (who shall remain nameless) suggested just that in a published magazine article, but only after consulting a friend who happened to be an Emeritus Professor of electromechanical engineering, who confirmed that it would be eminently suited to publication only in the April edition.

[Rickenbacker]

How about a stack of opposing neodymium magnets, Phil?

A certain magazine writer (who shall remain nameless) suggested just that in a published magazine article, but only after consulting a friend who happened to be an Emeritus Professor of electromechanical engineering, who confirmed that it would be eminently suited to publication only in the April edition.

That strikes me as a bit of a negative regarding the rare earth magnets, Jim

I was about to award Norm a modest research grant of some BBS cheese biscuits - but now that appears to be hanging by a thread!

[BTDT]

That strikes me as a bit of a negative regarding the rare earth magnets, Jim

I was about to award Norm a modest research grant of some BBS cheese biscuits - but now that appears to be hanging by a thread!

How many of the mods' precious BBS cheese biscuits would it be worth to rediscover that magnetic force is subject to the inverse square law, so the piston would not travel anything like far enough to get the pellet moving before the slightly elevated air pressure brought it to a stop?

On the plus side, there would be minimal sight picture disturbance, barely a nudge in the shoulder, and an infinite number of shot cycles from just one pellet.

[Phil Russell]

How many of the mods' precious BBS cheese biscuits would it be worth to rediscover that magnetic force is subject to the inverse square law, so the piston would not travel anything like far enough to get the pellet moving before the slightly elevated air pressure brought it to a stop?

On the plus side, there would be minimal sight picture disturbance, barely a nudge in the shoulder, and an infinite number of shot cycles from just one pellet.

Who needs a piston? Fashion a suitably screened barrel with magnets or even electro magnets controlled by a trigger switch in order to fire suitably (ecofriendly) magnetic pellets. Sure, a few technical issues to deal with such as preventing the barrel attracting magnetic objects when firing; but maybe the magnetic pulse of the barrel firing the steel pellet would be so fast as to make this of no consequence.
Now ... what is the tel. no. of the patent office? Whoops, forgot that I can't do that as I have already made the idea public.
Cheers, Phil

[BTDT]

Who needs a piston? Fashion a suitably screened barrel with magnets or even electro magnets controlled by a trigger switch in order to fire suitably (ecofriendly) magnetic pellets. Sure, a few technical issues to deal with such as preventing the barrel attracting magnetic objects when firing; but maybe the magnetic pulse of the barrel firing the steel pellet would be so fast as to make this of no consequence.
Now ... what is the tel. no. of the patent office? Whoops, forgot that I can't do that as I have already made the idea public.
Cheers, Phil

A sort of rail gun, Phil? I think that's already been invented. Besides, we have enough to cope with already (pellet drop, wind drift) without also subjecting magnetic pellets to the Earth's magnetic field.

[Shed tuner]

A sort of rail gun, Phil? I think that's already been invented. Besides, we have enough to cope with already (pellet drop, wind drift) without also subjecting magnetic pellets to the Earth's magnetic field.

Railguns are fun.. magnetic forces caused by high current electrical discharges are much better than rare earth magnets

[Mr.Fixit-Norm]

How many of the mods' precious BBS cheese biscuits would it be worth to rediscover that magnetic force is subject to the inverse square law, so the piston would not travel anything like far enough to get the pellet moving before the slightly elevated air pressure brought it to a stop?

On the plus side, there would be minimal sight picture disturbance, barely a nudge in the shoulder, and an infinite number of shot cycles from just one pellet.

I did wonder about this but I've found neodymium magnets 20mm dia and 20mm long which have a 15kg 'pull' if you had two of these with the same poles facing each other in a suitable size tube wouldn't that equate to a 30kg 'push' ?
Not sure if that would work but I have a couple of tiny ones here ( 4mm dia x 8mm long ), no idea of the 'pull' but it hurts if you get your fingers between them when they attract and if I try to push the same poles together it's virtually impossibly without them pinging across the room

I might have to rig up some sort of test rig first before I spend too much time cannibalising that old rifle.

Besides the lure of BBS cheese biscuits beckons.

Norm