ECA and 'mercan powders.....

[tacfoley]

I'm sure I'm not the only person here who uses mainly American-made propellants. With seven different centre-fires to reload for, and using just one European propellant [B140] for two of them, what are you using to replace the about-to-be-unobtainable propellants?

tac

PS - somehow THIS got missed off - explication.......

It's the REACH project. Explanation lifted from Full-Bore UK -

With regard to propellants, the REACH proposals are implemented as of 01.06.2018 which means any non-compliant products cannot be imported into the country / EU on or after that date. Anything arrived and through customs before that date is OK and can still enter the distributioon / retail chain.

Edgar Brothers is still ordering affected products and hopes to get as much as possible in before the axe falls, and no doubt odd tins will still turn up in retailers' cupboard in 20 (50?) years time given the number of ancient steel gray-painted tins of ICI Nobel powders around that have somehow survived. The problem Edgars have is that they already have literally thousands of pounds of Hodgdon powder on back order whose chances of eventual delivery even without the REACH cut-off is small to nil. (Let's be honest and just say nil!) So, although some more is going to arrive, it won't last long.

All European manufactured grades are OK - so Viht, Nitrochemie (Reload Swiss), Alliant ATK Reloder rifle grades (all made by Bofors and Nitrochemie), Ramshot (manufactured by PB Clermont in Belgium, part of the SNPE Eurenco group); SNPE Vectan are compliant.

Losing their CE certification as of 1st June next year are:

All Hodgdon ADI Manufactured extruded grades (also includes two IMR branded grades - 8208 XBR and Trail Boss), so H4198 through to H1000 and Retumbo 'gone'.

All General Dynamics St. Marks Powder Florida factory grades bar maybe a couple - all Winchester powders and nearly all Hodgdon 'spherical' powders are non-compliant. Hodgdon Lil Gun is compliant, and there is a question mark re the most recent introduction - H. CFE223. So, H335, BL-C(2), H414 and so-called 'Hybrid' powders made by St Marks (H100V and a few more), H. Super and Lever ... formance spherical powders will no longer be imported from the middle of next year.

All 'legacy' IMR powders made by General Dynamics Canada, in Valleyfield, Quebec are non-compliant, ie the traditional grades made by the Du Pont Corporation in the USA and taken to Canada under new ownership are non-compliant. Ie IMR-4198 through to IMR-7828 and including many old favourites such as 3031, 4895, and 4064.

GD Canada has introduced five new 'green' pistol / revolver grades and four rifle grades that are all REACH compliant, although not all may have been CE certified under the new standards yet. In rifle propellants, that's the new IMR 'Enduron' quartet - and I would hope that this number will be expanded but have no hard information as to whether that is a possibility. The Endurons are: IMR-4166 (H4895 / VarGet replacement); 4451 (vice IMR/H4350); 4955 (vice IMR-4831/H4831); 7977 (vice IMR-7828/H1000). 4166, 4451, and 7977 are CE certified and available now - having tried them, I'm impressed and reckon they will fill many gaps. IMR-4955 has only recently been introduced and hasn't got here yet.

Project REACH? Here's what I wrote on another forum to save my two typing fingers:

'REACH' - Regulation (EC) 1907/2006 concerning the Registration, Evaluation, Authorisation, and restriction of CHemicals

A 10 year old EU programme that sees final and full implementation next year and which affects any chemicals, or any product containing chemicals used in any field for any purpose. So it affects anything and everything that you use from washing up liquid to herbicides and insecticides, rat poisons, cleaning agents, .... etc, etc. The entire supply chain is affected from importer / manufacturer through trade and retail distribution chains up to sale to the final consumer.

Not just the finished product examined, but each and every ingredient. If any has any chemicals in the mix for which past studies have shown any health or environmental risks, the product has to be reformulated to replace them with approved ingredients or else withdrawn. To manufacture or import any non-REACH listed and approved substance will be an offence in EU law which in turn means in all member states' domestic laws.

[loiner1965]

I'm sure I'm not the only person here who uses mainly American-made propellants. With seven different centre-fires to reload for, and using just one European propellant [B140] for two of them, what are you using to replace the about-to-be-unobtainable propellants?

tac

luckily i have several powder loads recipes with varget / viht etc so i will just switch to the latter

[thisisdonald]

Just bought a .44 lever action. Looking at loads suitable for our 25m indoor range.. Trail boss looks good, but I'm s day late and a dollar shirt as usual... can anyone recommend a powder for sub 450 ft/lb energy with 240g bullets?

[amc577]

The Maxam flake shotgun powders can give the equivalent of Red Dot and Unique for reduced loads and pistol calibre. Now been experimenting with GDB111 almost identical to N130. Fine rod double base.

11gns of PSB2...similar burn rate to Unique, but cleaner....has been giving me 1" groups at 100yds in 308, 7.5x55, 30-30. Using the 165gn H and N plated bullet, which does not have an outstanding bc. 8.5 gns in .222...similar results.

Used 15gns of the GDB111 with the H and N 55gn plated bullet in my .222...this bullet has a dire bc...still got 1" groups at 100 yds.

The CSB5 powder...about Red Dot burn rate...has been excellent in most pistol calibres.

Powder is Spanish and speaking to one of the few uk importers, I was told not expected to be a problem after Brexit.

Prices much less than the American powders. CSB5 £39 a kilo.....PSB2 £45 a kilo.

The GDB111 would be good for full loads, certainly out to 300 yds..IMO. £66 a kilo.

amc577

[mag44uk]

Another fan of CSB5 in 357/41/44
Another excellent available powder would be N320.
Would be even better if we could get it in 2kg tubs like you can in mainland eu.

[springfieldm6]

Trail boss was one of my favourites, but has now disappeared due to REACH. I’ve heard Viht Tin Star is a similar bulky powder, good for cast bullets, though I haven’t yet tried it....

[Tretas]

The Maxam flake shotgun powders can give the equivalent of Red Dot and Unique for reduced loads and pistol calibre. Now been experimenting with GDB111 almost identical to N130. Fine rod double base.

11gns of PSB2...similar burn rate to Unique, but cleaner....has been giving me 1" groups at 100yds in 308, 7.5x55, 30-30. Using the 165gn H and N plated bullet, which does not have an outstanding bc. 8.5 gns in .222...similar results.

Used 15gns of the GDB111 with the H and N 55gn plated bullet in my .222...this bullet has a dire bc...still got 1" groups at 100 yds.

The CSB5 powder...about Red Dot burn rate...has been excellent in most pistol calibres.

Powder is Spanish and speaking to one of the few uk importers, I was told not expected to be a problem after Brexit.

Prices much less than the American powders. CSB5 £39 a kilo.....PSB2 £45 a kilo.

The GDB111 would be good for full loads, certainly out to 300 yds..IMO. £66 a kilo.

amc577

hi,
I'm new at this and I bought maxam gdb111, lapua scenar 167 and now I don't have reliable data from the powder supplier.

So, for what I have searched, i got data from the supplier for the barnes ttsx168 and for all the powders i got info i understood that the amount needed for the TTSX is a littler bit lower than for the scenar 167.

What I would like to ask is if someone as more data and if using the following amounts should be safe and correct?
My idea is to do a couples of rounds from 40.6-42.7, go to the range and than proceed if needed or possible.
Lapua scenar 167 with maxam gdb111 ttsx 168 data
40.6
40.9
41.2
41.5
41.8
42.1
42.4
42.7
43
43.3
43.6
43.9
44.2
44.5
44.8
45.1


Data:
Scenar min TSX min scenar max tsx max
N540 45.4 42.1 52 47.7
N550 49.7 45.7 55.1 50.3
N160 55.5 50.2 61.7 56.3
GDB111 40.6 47.5

[zanes]

From a quick google, clay and game advertise this powder and have THIS load data.

You don't mention what calibre you're loading for.