RFD’s requirement if over 12ft/lbs

[AndrewE]

Quick Q that I can’t get a definitive answer on.
If I take my air rifle to my local RFD to be crono’d and it’s over where do we all stand?
Do they have the power to confiscate it or do they allow you to dismantle it and take away?

[Rog5]

Quick Q that I can’t get a definitive answer on.
If I take my air rifle to my local RFD to be crono’d and it’s over where do we all stand?
Do they have the power to confiscate it or do they allow you to dismantle it and take away?

They are not allowed to give it back to you, and they should be able to bring the power down to legal limit before you get it back, I imagine they would do it themselves. Rog

[DedIdick]

Very grey, he's not permitted to return it to you cos its over. He would not be permitted to give you the major components cos they require a Fac to possess.

[AndrewE]

So your saying they can’t dismantle it and give it back for me to collapse the spring and rebuild?

So I could say “okay, my bad” then buy a sub 12ft/lb gun to replace the one I have lost.

Oh and before I leave they would be able to sell me “a service kit” containing top hat and spring guide, a tub of moli grease and an untrimmed spring. Which in theory if build incorrectly would give me the same gun.

[TonyL]

Not sure if this is a hypothetical question or not, Andrew?

But, if you do own a gun and you're not sure over the legality of the output, either get yourself a chrono (which you'll have for future use also) or ask on here and see if anyone local to you could check the power for you. Then, if over, or uncomfortably close, to the limit, perform the necessary adjustments?

[AndrewE]

Purely hypothetical.
I’m not happy to run a gun if it’s much over 11.
It’s was a question I asked at the RFD today with a variety of answers amongst the staff.

[rancidtom]

An RFD cannot pass possession of an air rifle over 12FtLb to anyone who does not have an FAC for the said firearm.
If he does then he is supplying an unlicensed firearm, an offence, also the recipient of said firearm is now in possession of an unlicensed firearm, another offence. If such a person tries to leave with an unlicensed firearm (their own or anyone else's) that's a whole different league of criminality you just found yourself in. Don't forget, your face will be on CCTV, any threats or attempts to take a gun by force will be recorded.
I am an RFD, if somebody brings me a faulty gun which chrono's over 12FtLb then it is immediately locked in the cabinet for disposal, repair or until the owner has applied for and received the relevant certificate to possess the gun as an FAC (Section 1) airgun. The customer will be made aware that it is a lengthy process and the storage charges may be more than the gun is worth.
No I cannot sell somebody the required parts to lower the power and let them walk away with an unlicensed firearm on the promise that they adjust/repair it when they get home.
If it is possible for me to adjust the faulty gun to bring it within the law then that is a service which I would do, however you may have to come back at a later date to collect it when the work is finished and the gun is checked over the chronograph. You would obviously be liable to pay for any parts and labour required.
My advice to anyone is to buy yourself a chrono, learn how to use it and keep your guns at an acceptable power with a little bit of headroom just in case of the gun "bedding in" and the power rising. You don't have to spend a fortune on a calibrated chrono, there are plenty of cheap options that will be close enough to the accuracy of a calibrated chrono if you give yourself a little headroom.
Keep an eye all the guns you possess, a regular check prevents any embarrassing incidents.

[AndrewE]

I agree with everything you say.
It surprised me that one of the responses I got today was it would be confiscated and I would need a FAC to get t back as it would have to be registered as an FAC gun and that it would not be able to strip it and reset it to a correct level and return. This was not even an option, this is what made me ask the above question. The cost of the work is obviously down to the owner of the gun.

[distantcamera]

There are plenty of RFDs who do not have the knowledge to competently adjust the power of every airgun taken in to them. In that case they would have to keep the gun until you'd applied for a license, or pass it to another RFD for repair. If you couldn't afford the charges for the work required or couldn't get an FAC then it would seem to you like your gun had been "confiscated."

The only real difference would be that the gun would remain your legal property until you had managed to make some kind of arrangement with the RFD. If you got arsey about it the RFD would be within their right to report you for possession of an illegal firearm, since you did possess it immediately before handing it to them.

It sounds like you own your own chrono...

[AndrewE]

For the sake of £50 everyone who owns a rifle should have one.

[angrybear]

So your saying they can’t dismantle it and give it back for me to collapse the spring and rebuild?

So I could say “okay, my bad” then buy a sub 12ft/lb gun to replace the one I have lost.

Oh and before I leave they would be able to sell me “a service kit” containing top hat and spring guide, a tub of moli grease and an untrimmed spring. Which in theory if build incorrectly would give me the same gun.

Why would you buy a new one ?

They can't just confiscate it because it's your legal property, but it would be illegal for them to hand you what would be a section 1 rifle, so it has to be made a not section 1 firearm, before it can be returned.

The grey area is probably down to how well they know you, if the barrel was removed they could(?) return the rest for you to take away fix the spring & return for them to refit the barrel & retest.

The bit about "it must be registered as a section 1 & they can't strip it" is bollocks, but, if you took in a rifle already registered as being sect 1 they could not just drop it to sub 12 & give it back to you because of it already being registered.

But way easier to buy your own chrono than place yourself in that position.

[rancidtom]

It gets a little more tricky with a pistol over 6 FtLb as it immediately becomes classed as Section 5 and not many people have Sec 5 tickets.
My RFD ticket does not extend to Sec 5, it becomes my duty to inform my firearms licensing dept and for me to organise how I hand over possession to them as not having Sec 5 on my ticket doesn't allow me to store a Sec 5 firearm.
This further underlines the need for owners to be aware of their responsibility to stay legal, buy a chrono, learn to use it correctly and test every gun finding the most powerful pellet for it, not just what you happen to have, do a bit of research and buy the ones which do give the highest muzzle energy simply to test over the chrono. Even if you don't shoot those pellets because they are useless at grouping it is no excuse to have a gun that will go over 6 or 12FtLb (pistol or rifle) with any projectile without the relevant certificate.

[Rich]

Really it's a daft situation as it basically discourages the sensible owner from having his rifle checked.

My advice is to join a club that owns a chrono and makes it available for all members to use, to keep themselves on the right side of the law.

We had a firearms team police officer at our club, he witnessed members checking their rifles and he witnessed them doing something about it if the results were warm, and fully endorsed what we were doing. He said something like, you're keeping illegal guns off the street, that's part of my job, what's not to like?

[DJP]

It gets a little more tricky with a pistol over 6 FtLb as it immediately becomes classed as Section 5...

No it doesn't.

[spartan]

quote ,,,I am an RFD, if somebody brings me a faulty gun which chrono's over 12FtLb then it is immediately locked in the cabinet for disposal, repair or until the owner has applied for and received the relevant certificate to possess the gun as an FAC (Section 1) airgun. The customer will be made aware that it is a lengthy process and the storage charges may be more than the gun is worth.

I to am an RFD, i was told by West Mids Police that if a situation like that arises where a customers gun is tested and found to be over the limit, i was to give it them back and recommend they reduce the power, When i questioned this i was told, if i was to accept the gun, i would be in charge of a illegal gun, thus i would be breaking the law, Common sence would say as an rfd, i would be able to reduce the power for the customer, making it legal, rather then letting him walk away, with technically a firearm, then everyone's happy and legal, but no if i accept it, i could be done!!, Even the officer i asked thought what i said was logical, but as he said, he's only following the rules.

Personally i wouldn't like the idea of taking someone's gun of them if it was slightly over, dont think they would be to happy

It seems to me, that certain police forces interpret the law to suit themselves, as obviously Tom was told different to me, as he could take the gun of a customer, Who's right??