RFD’s requirement if over 12ft/lbs

[Portzy]

Maybe the RFD does not have the legal right to seize or otherwise confiscate the rifle? but I would expect a competent one to offer the owner the option of secure and legal storage until the owner organises their remedial long term action.

If the owner does not accept and insists on taking his rifle, which is his property, back into a "public place" then I would imagine the RFD has a legal and moral obligation to report the owner. The RFD has more to lose I would say, guilty knowledge and all that.

[rancidtom]

No it doesn't.

Oh? Read section 2.46
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...l_2016_v20.pdf

[rancidtom]

Maybe the RFD does not have the legal right to seize or otherwise confiscate the rifle? but I would expect a competent one to offer the owner the option of secure and legal storage until the owner organises their remedial long term action.

If the owner does not accept and insists on taking his rifle, which is his property, back into a "public place" then I would imagine the RFD has a legal and moral obligation to report the owner. The RFD has more to lose I would say, guilty knowledge and all that.

I don't have any legal right apart from that I am not allowed to rescind possession of a firearm requiring a license to somebody who has no authority to possess such a firearm. If I did I would be knowingly supplying a prohibited weapon and would be convicted.

[DJP]

Oh? Read section 2.46
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...l_2016_v20.pdf

Interesting, but Home Office guidance is not law.

[DedIdick]

What constitutes "component parts" of an FAC rated airgun can be a "greyish" area. Some would class them as any part necessary for the operation of the firearm. I wouldn't want to be the one to argue things in court.

[rancidtom]

While it may not be law it is the Home Office who actually publish the law (Firearms Act) and this is their advice as to how to abide by the law, I'll take it as literally as I can and abide by it, while endeavouring to fully co-operate and inform my FEO for him to take possession of anything classed as "prohibited".

[DJP]

While it may not be law it is the Home Office who actually publish the law (Firearms Act) and this is their advice as to how to abide by the law, I'll take it as literally as I can and abide by it, while endeavouring to fully co-operate and inform my FEO for him to take possession of anything classed as "prohibited".

And you'd be quite right to do so.

I'm just interested that they're presenting their opinion as law when the Act itself says no such thing.

Still, I suppose it's OK for a layman's guide considering how rarely the situation probably crops up.

[Beretta303]

quote ,,,I am an RFD, if somebody brings me a faulty gun which chrono's over 12FtLb then it is immediately locked in the cabinet for disposal, repair or until the owner has applied for and received the relevant certificate to possess the gun as an FAC (Section 1) airgun. The customer will be made aware that it is a lengthy process and the storage charges may be more than the gun is worth.

I to am an RFD, i was told by West Mids Police that if a situation like that arises where a customers gun is tested and found to be over the limit, i was to give it them back and recommend they reduce the power, When i questioned this i was told, if i was to accept the gun, i would be in charge of a illegal gun, thus i would be breaking the law, Common sence would say as an rfd, i would be able to reduce the power for the customer, making it legal, rather then letting him walk away, with technically a firearm, then everyone's happy and legal, but no if i accept it, i could be done!!, Even the officer i asked thought what i said was logical, but as he said, he's only following the rules.

Personally i wouldn't like the idea of taking someone's gun of them if it was slightly over, dont think they would be to happy

It seems to me, that certain police forces interpret the law to suit themselves, as obviously Tom was told different to me, as he could take the gun of a customer, Who's right??

Was the Police Officer in question eluding to the fact that you can only act within existing law, which got me thinking ...

If you take an air rifle/pistol to an RFD for whatever reason, and the RFD decides to test it, is the testing apparatus they are using calibrated regularly to meet any Home Office requirement or national pre-determined Governmental and legal standard, as is required for the testing apparatus used by the Police to be able to be admissible in court ?

If not, then am I correct in saying that it is an unaccredited process and has no legal standing whatsoever, so, if the process is unaccredited, and un-admissable, how can the air rifle/pistol be seized by an RFD who has no 'legal' evidence that the rifle is over 12ftlb's as their testing apparatus has no 'legal' standing ?

[bighit]

What constitutes "component parts" of an FAC rated airgun can be a "greyish" area. Some would class them as any part necessary for the operation of the firearm. I wouldn't want to be the one to argue things in court.

Are component parts of an air weapon covered?
Yes, you will need a certificate to own or acquire individual components of an air weapon. This generally means parts which are required to fire the gun. Accessories like sights or stands do not need a certificate.

They just go with the home office guidelines

DO COMPONENT PARTS OF AN AIR WEAPON FALL UNDER THE NEW LEGISLATION?

The component parts of an air weapon, and any accessory to such a weapons designed or adapted to diminish the noise caused by discharging the weapon, will fall within the remit of the new legislation and therefore, if held, will need to be certificated.

Although there is no statutory definition for the term component part, the Home Office Guidance states:

“The term “component part” may be held to include (i) The barrel, chamber, cylinder, (ii) Frame, body or receiver, (iii) Breech, block, bolt or mechanism for containing the charge at the rear of the chamber (iv) Any part of the firearm upon which the pressure caused by firing the weapon impinges directly. • Magazines, sights and furniture are not considered component parts”.


http://www.scotland.police.uk/about-...g/legislation/

[secretagentmole]

Was the Police Officer in question eluding to the fact that you can only act within existing law, which got me thinking ...

If you take an air rifle/pistol to an RFD for whatever reason, and the RFD decides to test it, is the testing apparatus they are using calibrated regularly to meet any Home Office requirement or national pre-determined Governmental and legal standard, as is required for the testing apparatus used by the Police to be able to be admissible in court ?

If not, then am I correct in saying that it is an unaccredited process and has no legal standing whatsoever, so, if the process is unaccredited, and un-admissable, how can the air rifle/pistol be seized by an RFD who has no 'legal' evidence that the rifle is over 12ftlb's as their testing apparatus has no 'legal' standing ?

There is no requirement. In fact on one occasion I had to tell the RFD that his chrono was out when I was selling a gun. I had tested it on my Combro and gt a nice healthy 11.3 and his twin arm thing was reading all over the place, one shot was 17ft lb, one was 15, he refused to buy and said he was going to seize the gun. I said "Just try a new battery in that chrono!" He did, got the same reading as my Combro over 20 shots, he admitted he had never checked his chrono for accuracy, ever!

[jon_h]

What constitutes "component parts" of an FAC rated airgun can be a "greyish" area. Some would class them as any part necessary for the operation of the firearm. I wouldn't want to be the one to argue things in court.

That’s what I don’t get. With for example my FAC rapid, all the component parts (bar the block which has a serial number and is on my licence) can be bought and sold freely. Without licence.

If you were to take an over powered rapid (off licence) into an rfd surely if it was just taken apart on the desk nothing you take away would be illegal?

[Beretta303]

There is no requirement. In fact on one occasion I had to tell the RFD that his chrono was out when I was selling a gun. I had tested it on my Combro and gt a nice healthy 11.3 and his twin arm thing was reading all over the place, one shot was 17ft lb, one was 15, he refused to buy and said he was going to seize the gun. I said "Just try a new battery in that chrono!" He did, got the same reading as my Combro over 20 shots, he admitted he had never checked his chrono for accuracy, ever!

Your experience proves the point, no requirement, therefore it can't be anything other than an unaccredited process which is inadmissible as evidence as it is deemed as being of no scientific value, so, there is no legal power to seize any rifle, just like the Police officer was noted as having said in a previous post, the RFD is simply required to give it back and advise the owner to get it altered.

[DJP]

Was the Police Officer in question eluding to the fact that you can only act within existing law, which got me thinking ...

If you take an air rifle/pistol to an RFD for whatever reason, and the RFD decides to test it, is the testing apparatus they are using calibrated regularly to meet any Home Office requirement or national pre-determined Governmental and legal standard, as is required for the testing apparatus used by the Police to be able to be admissible in court ?

If not, then am I correct in saying that it is an unaccredited process and has no legal standing whatsoever, so, if the process is unaccredited, and un-admissable, how can the air rifle/pistol be seized by an RFD who has no 'legal' evidence that the rifle is over 12ftlb's as their testing apparatus has no 'legal' standing ?

You would be entirely correct.

An RFD's chrono merely provides an indication that a customer may want to have their gun looked at.

It isn't proof of anything.

[DJP]

Your experience proves the point, no requirement, therefore it can't be anything other than an unaccredited process which is inadmissible as evidence as it is deemed as being of no scientific value, so, there is no legal power to seize any rifle, just like the Police officer was noted as having said in a previous post, the RFD is simply required to give it back and advise the owner to get it altered.

Quite.

[rancidtom]

My chrono is calibrated, it is mains powered so no battery issues, it is of the same type our police forces use for their assessment of a gun before they refer the gun to the forensic test laboratory. While my chrono results may not be satisfactory as court evidence they are satisfactory enough for the police to make a decision on forensic testing and possible prosecution if they then decide to refer it to the CPS.
I am not ever going to tell a customer I am "seizing" a gun, I will tell them their gun is over the limit, they cannot legally leave my premises with it and we can refer to the FEO for his advice or I can repair the gun and only then will it be legal for the owner to take it away from me. I will make a customer aware that if they take a gun disregarding the advice of the FEO or myself that I will report them and that they have been recorded on my CCTV, the evidence will be passed to the police if they so require.
It's as simple as that. I don't argue, I will contact my Firearms Licensing Dept immediately and ask them to settle any argument. Not my problem, I will follow the advice from my FEO or whoever is on duty at the time. I don't try to mess people about by scaring them into surrendering a gun for "confiscation" or by making them pay for work that isn't required.