Size of Collectors' Market in the UK

[Garvin]

Some things I think it’s fair to say we know about the UK vintage airgun market:

1. There are some well-heeled collectors who will pay a premium to have rare airguns quickly and are in a hurry to build their collections, which influences the prices dealers charge
2. Good condition rarities are likely to hold their value / be the last to lose their value if the market crashes / restrictive laws come in etc
3. Good condition rarities are in short supply, so when they do come up competition can be intense / prices high
4. In the UK, English airguns tend to be worth more than foreign guns, depending on rarity
5. Non-production or prototype rarities are not as sought after as production items
6. There is a lot of luck involved in selling vintage airguns at an auction – if two people want the same item at the same time the final price can be high, if not disappointingly low
7. Don’t be in a rush to snap up the first classic airgun you see that was made in large quantities when new – another one will be along soon enough
8. Condition is everything when it comes to value
9. Nostalgia drives a lot of purchases

Edit: 10. Binners' Kempton show has revealed a big appetite for airgun bargains in the Southeast.

[Unframed Dave]

Am I the youngest person in this sub-forum?
33 and a 1/4

Legally I'm old enough to be your dad, and I'm younger than most on here.

Dave

[45flint]

Some things I think it’s fair to say we know about the UK vintage airgun market:

1. There are some well-heeled collectors who will pay a premium to have rare airguns quickly and are in a hurry to build their collections, which influences the prices dealers charge
2. Good condition rarities are likely to hold their value / be the last to lose their value if the market crashes / restrictive laws come in etc
3. Good condition rarities are in short supply, so when they do come up competition can be intense / prices high
4. In the UK, English airguns tend to be worth more than foreign guns, depending on rarity
5. Non-production or prototype rarities are not as sought after as production items
6. There is a lot of luck involved in selling vintage airguns at an auction – if two people want the same item at the same time the final price can be high, if not disappointingly low
7. Don’t be in a rush to snap up the first classic airgun you see that was made in large quantities when new – another one will be along soon enough
8. Condition is everything when it comes to value
9. Nostalgia drives a lot of purchases

Edit: 10. Binners' Kempton show has revealed a big appetite for airgun bargains in the Southeast.

I think many of these are just Airgun collecting truths, 7&8 really strike home.

[Vic Thompson]

All but in line with my thoughts Garvin, and well worth a thought from all other collectors (and those that would be so) !

Vic Thompson.

[Geezer]

I would guess (guess) that the number of serious (however defined) collectors with large (say twenty plus?) collections is something like 500. Maybe 2000. I base that on things like active and passive membership of relevant web forums, FB groups, etc.

Binners might have a view - attendance at Kempton fair, divide by two given it also had militaria and stuff, then multiply by some factor as I guess few people more than three hours drive from London (which I guess is something between a quarter and a third of the U.K. population?) would have made the trip.

There are of course a much larger number of airgunners who own an old rifle or pistol from their youth, or inherited from a relative, or that they bought because it was interesting, but would never visit this section of the BBS, or consider themselves "collectors".

I'm not even sure if I'm a real collector. I do own a fair few airguns, almost all of them are old, many are definitely collectable, but I think I have accumulated them because they are interesting, not because I wanted to collect things.

Oh, alright, I guess that means I'm a collector.

[Garvin]

I would guess (guess) that the number of serious (however defined) collectors with large (say twenty plus?) collections is something like 500. Maybe 2000. I base that on things like active and passive membership of relevant web forums, FB groups, etc.

Truth is, it's impossible to know. There may be a relatively small number of active collectors who visit fairs, bid in auctions etc, but there may be hundreds or thousands of people with collections of some description who are no longer active, but read magazines or browse the internet.

I suspect quite a lot of people who would consider themselves airgun collectors are getting on a bit and are not 'digital-friendly'...

I've seen 60,000+ page views per month regularly in my online galleries, but it seems to be only a few individuals worldwide who spend a lot of their time looking at pics of old airguns! Unique visitors are in the low hundreds.

[45flint]

I've seen 60,000+ page views per month regularly in my online galleries, but it seems to be only a few individuals worldwide who spend a lot of their time looking at pics of old airguns! Unique visitors are in the low hundreds.

I think your online gallery would be a pretty good view into the new collectors. As a new collector I have found your gallery the best one stop info on the internet for vintage airguns. When I’m looking at a new acquisition I almost always go there to compare. However for the advanced or old time collector I would think visits may be far less? Wonder if you can tell the number of visiting members outside the UK?

[andrewM]

The comments here continue to be interesting. I looked, Garvin, at your link and the comments within relating to the age profile of collectors, which I found to be of equal interest.

A good friend's son is 16 and recently bought a new HW97, with telescope. I showed him my early '20s BSA Standard, with open sights. As with so many youngsters, he will go to university and then to work but he might - like others - become a collector in middle age or later. This might account for the age profile of collectors. One thing the new springers do not have, of course, is the old leather washers and resulting dieseling habit, which is so traditional and peculiar to many of the collectors here.

Your wonderful galleries and posts, Garvin, are a great inspiration and do much to enthuse many newcomers and old collectors alike.

It would be pleasing to hear from Edbear; he is a most decent fellow and showed me great courtesy when I joined this site. His old collection of pre-War BSAs has reached near legendary status with some of us, I imagine. One could have spent a day looking at these magnificent items.

[gingernut]

I knew that Collectors were peculiar but not that they dieseled!

We need to defend our sport and encourage youngsters to shoot as a sport.
If we only get bad publicity and more laws Airgunning could fade away and collecting with it.

At the moment collecting seems quite healthy and collectable airguns are good at holding or increasing value.

Kempton has been a great boost and we do see younger collectors/shooters there who are very keen.

[CHJF177]

Am I the youngest person in this sub-forum?
33 and a 1/4

You could well be young man!
Seriously though. Are there any who are younger out there and prepared to confess.
But only on here where you will be properly understood!

Chris.

[slug-gun]

I think that airgun collecting as a hobby, and the number of participants within it, will shrink over time, due simply to the demographics involved. In the 1950's/60's every kid had an airgun, and shot it anywhere he fancied. He started with a cheap Diana and sometimes eventually managed to get a BSA or Webley.

When he grew up, he aspired to own the air guns he either couldn't afford or wasn't allowed when he was younger. and suddenly he found himself with a few old airguns and became a collector! And his collection grew, and he shared his passion with other blokes of his age, he joined clubs, and more fellas bought old airguns.

None of that happens any more. Far fewer youngsters buy airguns, a) because they have so many other interests, mainly computer based, b) shooting them is more restricted, and c) society disapproves more than ever. However some of these lads (or lasses) may well start collecting, but it will be those airguns they remember from their youth.

Ergo, will a 25 year old today be interested in a 'long-tom' BSA's, when he has been brought up with electronic Daystates with on board chronographs? A few might of course, but not in the numbers that hitherto have collected these things.
As such the hobby may well decline as we all get older, sell our collections, and die! A bit brutal but it's gonna happen!

Values will decline, or at best stabilise, for all but the very finest and rarest of airguns, for which there will always be a healthy demand, as there is for the best of anything. We can see evidence of this already - the very worth Webley Mk.3, can be bought in excellent condition for £150 to £200 - much the same sort of money as dealers were asking in the 1980's!

And to cap it all, there is impending legislation, which will inevitably curtail interest from the aforementioned young people.

I do hope I am wrong, but these scenarios applies to other collecting hobbies as well - eg model cars and trains from pre and post war. Values/interest is down due to fewer people being interested in acquiring for example old Hornby locomotives?

[Garvin]

I think that airgun collecting as a hobby, and the number of participants within it, will shrink over time, due simply to the demographics involved. In the 1950's/60's every kid had an airgun, and shot it anywhere he fancied. He started with a cheap Diana and sometimes eventually managed to get a BSA or Webley.

When he grew up, he aspired to own the air guns he either couldn't afford or wasn't allowed when he was younger. and suddenly he found himself with a few old airguns and became a collector! And his collection grew, and he shared his passion with other blokes of his age, he joined clubs, and more fellas bought old airguns.

None of that happens any more. Far fewer youngsters buy airguns, a) because they have so many other interests, mainly computer based, b) shooting them is more restricted, and c) society disapproves more than ever. However some of these lads (or lasses) may well start collecting, but it will be those airguns they remember from their youth....

I don't dispute any of what you say, Chris. Especially when it comes to production guns made in large quantities and that nostalgia-for-youth factor.

But I would just point to the 'known unknown', which is the thing that hasn't been invented yet.

Maybe there will be a cultural backlash against all things plastic and modern, driving up the value of wood and steel? Maybe future laws against airguns will be directed against modern ones, excluding those made before 1970, instead of 1939 at present?

30 years ago one could have made the same observation you make, but not knowing that the internet would come along and give airgun collectors and the (at least, rare) collectables market a major shot in the arm...

[slug-gun]

I don't dispute any of what you say, Chris. Especially when it comes to production guns made in large quantities and that nostalgia-for-youth factor.

But I would just point to the 'known unknown', which is the thing that hasn't been invented yet.

Maybe there will be a cultural backlash against all things plastic and modern, driving up the value of wood and steel? Maybe future laws against airguns will be directed against modern ones, excluding those made before 1970, instead of 1939 at present?

30 years ago one could have made the same observation you make, but not knowing that the internet would come along and give airgun collectors and the (at least, rare) collectables market a major shot in the arm...

Good points Danny, and I certainly hope you're right, as it would be a great shame if all that walnut and fine blued steel were not to be appreciated by future generations. Indeed the 'backlash' you refer to has already started in many areas, and as you suggest, this phenomenon could well accelerate and 'save the day'?

Re the internet, ironically its advent has actually caused the depreciation of some more common items. Previously one could only collect what was advertised in the local paper or magazines. Come the 'net suddenly all the more common guns were being advertised widely, and were available in their droves, with the inevitable reduction in desirability of these more mainstream and common items.

Of course the rarer items have become ever more appreciated as the awareness of said rarity becomes more widespread.

[45flint]

I don't dispute any of what you say, Chris. Especially when it comes to production guns made in large quantities and that nostalgia-for-youth factor.

But I would just point to the 'known unknown', which is the thing that hasn't been invented yet.

Maybe there will be a cultural backlash against all things plastic and modern, driving up the value of wood and steel? Maybe future laws against airguns will be directed against modern ones, excluding those made before 1970, instead of 1939 at present?

30 years ago one could have made the same observation you make, but not knowing that the internet would come along and give airgun collectors and the (at least, rare) collectables market a major shot in the arm...

Isn’t it similar to why people still collect mechanical watches? All of what people wear about their wrists today is digital. There is something that draws people to mechanical precision, especially when it’s crafted in a way not really possible today? Shooting sports are part of our history and nature, really doubt that’s going to change.

As a outsider, your X factor to me is political, there is a “limited” free market which could get worse. That to me would be the greatest risk. Collecting is a hobby for fun and enjoyment. Increase the hassles and fewer will find it enjoyable?

Ironically the above part of the reason in the last two years, I’ve sold most of my firearms and started collecting airguns.
In US it a bit of a pain to transact and ship firearms. Airguns are not regulated so it’s all the joy of collecting with no hassles.