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Thread: New Webley Service

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
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    With the Webley Mk.2 Service being one of my all time favourite rifles, I'm looking forward to the reports, and hopefully photographs, from those who have seen and handled the Sterling Mk.2 at the shot show.
    My only criticism from looking at the photographs would be with the rearsight mounted on top of the barrel housing. It needs a peep sight on the rear of the breech block, as per the original.

  2. #32
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    Apr 2006
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    St Helens
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    Thanks troubleshooter,

    these rifles are prototypes, any feedback is always welcome before they go into production!

    thank you!!
    I wanna be the airgunbbs Model

  3. #33
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    My 2c on the springers:

    HR81 - old one has a firing cycle that sounds like a car crash. Please make sure the basics, like properly fitting guides, and sensible transfer port volumes, are addressed to avoid horrendous slam and poor power.

    Service - nice, just that horrendous rearsight. Nothing wrong with making it scope-able, but 90% will want either a peepsight or regular opens.

    In terms of addressing issues with the original, in order of priority I would:
    - reduce the transfer port volume / length to avoid slam and increase power
    - shorter barrel (already seems to have been done) - 18" is plenty
    - increase the stroke - making the main cylinder a little longer if needed would be easily accodomated - say +15mm
    - parachute lip type piston seal
    - shim the pivot pin each side
    - take the slack out of the removable barrel mounting
    - trigger

    Finally, if you really want to sell something that will be very popular, make a modern Bonehill britiania - it's already a much better gun the the 40-year newer Webley to start with, so should be less work to repro
    Always looking for any cheap, interesting, knackered "project" guns. Thanks, JB.

  4. #34
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    Service - nice, just that horrendous rearsight. Nothing wrong with making it scope-able, but 90% will want either a peepsight or regular opens.
    Why not have both as per the original.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troubledshooter View Post
    Why not have both as per the original.
    yes, absolutely...
    Always looking for any cheap, interesting, knackered "project" guns. Thanks, JB.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Pulborough
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    997
    Certainly, it is not cheap at the price and most would desire it in blued gunmetal rather than stainless steel, I suspect. That would certainly be the case for those who wish to hunt with it. However, in addition to the remarks here, one must also consider the market more generally. Many collectors, who are in the minority, will want a similar sighting system to the old Mk2 or open sights that are as perfect and as sharp as possible. That said, a scope rail should be added: things have moved on from the '30s but, in addition, the majority shoot with a scope and to make a return on capital, their interests cannot be ignored.

    What a wonderful and innovative team from Sterling: well done and it is splendid to bring air rifle innovation back to the UK again, from Germany. There is no reason why HW should lead the UK market forever.

    Perhaps other old Webley designs could be taken and improved upon too: the Mk3 is a case in point. It had and still has a significant following here but also left much to be desired.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
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    Beverley, E Yorks
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    Fantastic work Sterling. Lots to love there.

    Open sights on the MkII and a scope rail (bolt on the side to be removeable perhaps?).

    Stainless, good call. Where do I sign?
    NON SUFFICIT ORBIS

  8. #38
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    Feb 2001
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    As the barrel is not currently designed to be interchangeable, I am extremely disappointed.
    I can understand the thinking behind this, but it rather takes away one of the main characteristics of the Service rifle, and at the current estimated price it makes it an expensive half copy of the Mk.2 Webley Service Rifle, not to mention the lack of a peep sight.
    I realise the models currently on show are prototypes, but would suggest a bit more thought needs to go into this project before the rifle becomes available for sale.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    walsall
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    538
    I had a good chat with designer of the copy service rifle this morning before the show opened , the two prototypes are made from stainless, one fitted with a service stock, the other a gary cane stock, the barrel isnt interchangeable like the original or tapered, i asked them if they were going to fit steel sights and peep sight as per the original, but i think there going to stick with the alloy ones, also no aperture sight, which seems a shame, the production rifles are going to be blued, he is going to do a modified version and try to get 12ftbs, should be interesting to see if it works ok.
    Shaun

    Was it worth the trouble, Ah, what trouble

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    As Cpt Bertarelli said,"wadda mistaka to maka!"

    Never make a 'poor man's version" of anything! With airguns I've seen economy versions of BSA,Crosman,FAS,and FWB. Great turn-offs! Include all the 'Service' features....plus.

    Sp Bertorelli

  11. #41
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    Aug 2001
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    Ah, non removeable barrel has just killed it for me. Take note please Mr Sterling.

    It’s part fiddle factor and part that it made a “compact” package stripped.
    Also, iron sights are ESSENTIAL imho.

    I’ll stick to my original, maybe try and find a very sweet one for the same money.
    NON SUFFICIT ORBIS

  12. #42
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    Jun 2000
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    Basingstoke, U.K.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil B View Post
    Ah, non removeable barrel has just killed it for me. Take note please Mr Sterling.

    It’s part fiddle factor and part that it made a “compact” package stripped.
    Also, iron sights are ESSENTIAL imho.

    I’ll stick to my original, maybe try and find a very sweet one for the same money.
    On the face of it, the ability to interchange barrels has always been one of the most attractive features of the Webley Service air rifle. However, I understand why Sterling are reluctant to offer this after speaking with the rifle's 'reverse engineer' at the British Shooting Show. Sterling want to offer power levels up to the legal limit and in order to do this, they would have to set up a multi barrelled set for a heavy .25 pellet, which is more efficient ballistically than a lighter .177. Therefore a rifle set up to shoot a .25 or even a .22 would be less efficient in .177 and therefore high power could not be offered in the smaller calibre. I am a huge fan of the original and if I am completely honest with myself, I do not regularly swap barrels/calibres unless I am experimenting for a review. Doing so results in different trajectories anyway, so having just one barrel but consistently high power kind of works for me.

    Agreed about open sights though. The rifle needs a quality peep sight in keeping with the original. It just so happens my friend Paul O'Donnell makes excellent replacement sights for the Service, so I'll speak to him when I next see him about this interesting project.

    John

  13. #43
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    Jan 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil B View Post
    Ah, non removeable barrel has just killed it for me. Take note please Mr Sterling.

    It’s part fiddle factor and part that it made a “compact” package stripped.
    Also, iron sights are ESSENTIAL imho.

    I’ll stick to my original, maybe try and find a very sweet one for the same money.

    As above, killed it for me too......
    Remember, it is the strongest character that God gives the most challenges.

  14. #44
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    Jan 2017
    Location
    Pulborough
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    Sterling should take their time over this

    As Cinedux remarked: "Never make a 'poor man's version" of anything!"

    This project must also be considered from the business viewpoint or it will end up flat on its face. To whom is Sterling appealing? Is it just to those who collect? If so, I suspect the market is restricted and at the price suggested, only a small number will purchase. As per the comments here, some collectors will not purchase if the rifle varies from the original too much. Others will find the price a deterrent. The potential returns on capital suggest that the sums might not add up unless the case is compelling. Therefore the project must appeal to more general shooters. In this respect, raising the power to close to 12ft/lbs will appeal to them but to win their confidence, a telescope will be a vital consideration for hardly anyone shoots with open sights these days. The price will also detract: why buy an obsolete design when HW produce rifles just as good for less than half the price? What, therefore, will Sterling offer which makes this a 'must buy' and competes with other manufacturers? General shooters have never heard of the old Mk2 Webley, so sentiment is not a consideration for them. Will this new rifle offer better accuracy? Will the open sights provide a better and sharper alternative to existing open sights on competing rifles? What of the handling? What is the trigger like? How is the balance and what is the weight of the rifle? How do these things compare with the competition?

    There are very many questions to be asked and answered. If production occurs and the reviews are poor, the project could fail. Far better for Sterling to take time and to consider all the questions that are likely to arise and, not least, to consult widely. In this respect, Cinedux's views are bang on target: this rifle must outclass the original.

    I would like this project to succeed and, not least, it is pleasing to see another British manufacturer in the market again. To make a success, all the boxes should be ticked and the most careful research and consultation should be carried out to ensure this occurs. If it is also a success from a business view, perhaps further innovations will follow from Sterling.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josie & John View Post
    On the face of it, the ability to interchange barrels has always been one of the most attractive features of the Webley Service air rifle. However, I understand why Sterling are reluctant to offer this after speaking with the rifle's 'reverse engineer' at the British Shooting Show. Sterling want to offer power levels up to the legal limit and in order to do this, they would have to set up a multi barrelled set for a heavy .25 pellet, which is more efficient ballistically than a lighter .177. Therefore a rifle set up to shoot a .25 or even a .22 would be less efficient in .177 and therefore high power could not be offered in the smaller calibre. I am a huge fan of the original and if I am completely honest with myself, I do not regularly swap barrels/calibres unless I am experimenting for a review. Doing so results in different trajectories anyway, so having just one barrel but consistently high power kind of works for me.

    John
    I can understand Stirling's thinking on this, John.

    Webley themselves finally dropped the interchangeable barrel system on the Hawk MK2 as so few people bought the gun with both barrels.
    When the Hawk MK3 came out with its fixed barrel it must have save Webley quite a bit of money in machining costs.




    All the best Mick

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