Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 25 of 25

Thread: Load Testing | 22 Hornet

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    yorkshire "barnsley"
    Posts
    2,562
    Ok so I bought myself a reloading kit ,only a cheack Lee breech lock but it’s a start next will be some dies ,so what to get
    Lee
    Rcbs
    Two die or three die ?
    Acta non Verba

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Lancaster
    Posts
    2,248
    Quote Originally Posted by mick a View Post
    Ok so I bought myself a reloading kit ,only a cheack Lee breech lock but it’s a start next will be some dies ,so what to get
    Lee
    Rcbs
    Two die or three die ?
    Anything will do the job. I've got an RCBS full length resizing die and bullet seating die. Does the job for me.

    .22LR CZ452; .22 Hornet CZ527
    Tikka T3 Varmint .223; .204 Ruger CZ527 Varmint;
    6.5 Creed Bergara B14 HMR

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    104

    Reloading dies

    Quote Originally Posted by mick a View Post
    Ok so I bought myself a reloading kit ,only a cheack Lee breech lock but it’s a start next will be some dies ,so what to get
    Lee
    Rcbs
    Two die or three die ?
    Hi Mick,
    Whilst a three die set makes life a little easier it is VERY important to ensure that your reloaded rounds HEAD SPACE on the long sloping Hornet and NOT the rim! Cases like the Hornet will stretch very easily after firing resulting in case loss due to separation just above the rim. Just using the neck size die of a 3 die set will maintain a "tight fit" in the chamber and reduce somewhat excessive case stretching, but in a case like this it will stretch more than a straight wall steep angle neck case. If using a 2 die set; you can "back off" the F/L die from the shell holder just enough that when your reloaded round is chambered it encounters some resistance reducing its tendency to stretch. NOTE: Remember that the die manufacturer made his die so that when screwed down on the shell holder it would result in a case that would re-chamber in "every man and his dog's" rifle! This DOES not mean that this is the ideal setup for your rifle (but it might be), so, for your rifle adjust the die so that after the resizing of fired cases they just slip in your chamber and then lock the die! However, just remember that YOUR resized rounds may not fit in somebody else's chamber and you should not do this anyway. Your safe reloads may not be safe in another rifle. I bought my first chronograph in about 1969 (silver ink printed screens) and believe you me the chronograph is a very desirable piece of kit that will become nearly impossible to live without. Often when factory loads are fired across the chronograph you wonder why you are paying good money for ammo that does not anywhere near live up the the manufacturers hype although sometimes it does. The chronograph will allow you to optimise what you can get out of your rifle. Just because a reloading manual details a certain load; use it as a potential start remembering that it was worked up in HIS gun! Also, sometimes data may be published by a certain powder manufacturer and they often "tend" to "big note" their powder! What about the primer, bullet and case? Some cases are harder than others and tend to resist higher load pressures, primers may also affect the "burn" and the bullet? Ideally get a chronograph and learn to "read" case pressures (I posed a sticky "A Good Read for Reloaders" and I suggest you read it). Finally, watch case stretch and trim to length to avoid the possibility of "neck jam" in the chamber which will raise pressures. If you do not get 5 plus reloads out of your cases before primer pocket loosening then YOUR PRESSURES ARE TOO HIGH-reduce the load, change the powder, primer, bullet or case so that you do!

    And most of all-HAVE FUN!
    pjinoz

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    yorkshire "barnsley"
    Posts
    2,562
    Thank you for your post it looks like I have a lot to learn, I did buy a chrony master alpha at the same time I did thin’ it would come in handy 🙂
    Acta non Verba

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Devizes
    Posts
    5,031

    Hornet head space

    The hornet case is shaped like a cylindrical wedge, it head spaces off of the rim not the 'shoulder' as it doesn't have a shoulder, if it was as simple as sizing to a crush fit then the good folk at saubier.com wouldn't go to the effort of group ordering RWS brass as it has a thicker rim and more consistent rim and therefore headspaces better, they'd just size for a crush fit.

    Generally the european brass has a thicker rim so head spaces more reliably. you have to decide whether you want to push for maximum velocity in which case use american head stamps (REM/Win/Hornady in that order) as these cases are thinner walled and therefore allow more powder capacity but they do fail quicker, or potentially better headpsace due to thicker rim but lower velocities due to less case capacity of european brass but greater longevity, PPU being the obvious and most easily obtainable. There is about 1.5 gr difference in capacity of lilgun between Rem and PPU brass, Rem brass is very hard to get hold of over here unless you want to shoot factory ammo to obtain it. S&B is okay but the primer pockets are punched so need widening and cleaning up in a lot of cases.

    In terms of dies I'd go for the lee 4 die set, this gives you the option to FL size, even if you neck size your own brass you will need this if you buy once fired brass and the more people that are loading hornet the harder hornet brass is to get hold of. It also contains a collet neck sizing die, which will allow you to increase the longevity of the brass, work it less and no lube / dry lube only. The 4 die set also contains a factory crimp die which, if you look around the forums, a lot of hornet reloaders swear by.

    A chrono is very useful but provided you stick to published data its definitely not an essential, for hornet you are loading for a functional round that shoots < MOA out to 200 yards, you don't need a chrono to achieve this. Hornet is a doddle to load but as has been said know what you are looking out for in terms of pressure, you only get one face.

    Lilgun is the best powder to start with and unlike many Hodgdon powders is not REACH affected
    Last edited by 223AI; 27-03-2018 at 01:03 PM.
    Thanks for looking

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Exeter
    Posts
    35,660
    Quote Originally Posted by mick a View Post
    Ok so I bought myself a reloading kit ,only a cheack Lee breech lock but it’s a start next will be some dies ,so what to get
    Lee
    Rcbs
    Two die or three die ?
    I couldn't get on with my Lee set so I've got a Hornady 2 die set, which are very good quality, for std Hornet cases, while I use RCBS "K Hornet" once they're fire formed.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    104

    Load Testing /22 Hornet

    Quote Originally Posted by Boydy47 View Post
    The hornet case is shaped like a cylindrical wedge, it head spaces off of the rim not the 'shoulder' as it doesn't have a shoulder, if it was as simple as sizing to a crush fit then the good folk at saubier.com wouldn't go to the effort of group ordering RWS brass as it has a thicker rim and more consistent rim and therefore headspaces better, they'd just size for a crush fit.

    Generally the european brass has a thicker rim so head spaces more reliably. you have to decide whether you want to push for maximum velocity in which case use american head stamps (REM/Win/Hornady in that order) as these cases are thinner walled and therefore allow more powder capacity but they do fail quicker, or potentially better headpsace due to thicker rim but lower velocities due to less case capacity of european brass but greater longevity, PPU being the obvious and most easily obtainable. There is about 1.5 gr difference in capacity of lilgun between Rem and PPU brass, Rem brass is very hard to get hold of over here unless you want to shoot factory ammo to obtain it. S&B is okay but the primer pockets are punched so need widening and cleaning up in a lot of cases.

    In terms of dies I'd go for the lee 4 die set, this gives you the option to FL size, even if you neck size your own brass you will need this if you buy once fired brass and the more people that are loading hornet the harder hornet brass is to get hold of. It also contains a collet neck sizing die, which will allow you to increase the longevity of the brass, work it less and no lube / dry lube only. The 4 die set also contains a factory crimp die which, if you look around the forums, a lot of hornet reloaders swear by.

    A chrono is very useful but provided you stick to published data its definitely not an essential, for hornet you are loading for a functional round that shoots < MOA out to 200 yards, you don't need a chrono to achieve this. Hornet is a doddle to load but as has been said know what you are looking out for in terms of pressure, you only get one face.

    Lilgun is the best powder to start with and unlike many Hodgdon powders is not REACH affected
    Hi Boydy and other readers,
    Sorry to have to disagree with you; although the Hornet case is wedge shaped it DOES have a shoulder (5 deg. 38') and wedge or not it will still make contact in a wedge shaped chamber. I once had a 300 H&H and it had a wedge shaped shoulder (8 deg. 30') and "head spaced" on the belt and if cases were F/L sized it sure did stretch and cause case separation. However, when cases were neck sized only I easily doubled my case life. You are quite correct in suggesting that Hornet cases of thicker rim are better as there will be less head space, BUT even if the Hornet cases you have are 0.065" thick will STILL BE HEAD SPACE as the firearm manufacturer must set head space so that even cases of maximum thickness will easily chamber! One must be careful in saying that Euro cases have correct head space and US not. I have 1000 Winchester cases spread over my Hornet and K-Hornet and they average 0.065", even got a few Rem. cases of the same thickness and was given some Norma cases that were 0.060"- 0.005" below standard. I firstly select cases in the shop with a vernier micrometer to check if they are "on spec". Whilst it may be true that some Euro cases may be of lesser capacity; load limitation can be very strongly influenced by case construction and hardness. A softer case will excessively expand before a hard case. I think it is more worthwhile to determine case capacity after it has been fired and before resizing. Why? Case volume will depend on chamber dimension and unfired "small dimension" cases will expand more than unfired "large dimension but essentially end up equal in exterior dimension after firing. So, back to head spacing on the shoulder. The firearm manufacturer starts out with a NEW "maximum dimension" reamer allowed under chamber tolerances and then begins to cut chambers. When it dulls it is resharpened and is "smaller" in dimensions and continues to cut chambers, resharpen etc UNTIL IT IS TOO SMALL TO PASS SPEC. Then it is thrown in the bin. What are the chamber dimensions of your gun and Fred's down the road? You might have a "magnum" chamber and he a "standard" chamber. You can go a lot further and take a chamber cast with Woods Metal and find out what its internal dimensions are in reality. The last one I took was for my departed Boys .55 cal Anti tank rifle which in this instance confirmed my belief that the "Poms" had simply necked up a Yank .50 cal Browning case to .55 and added a belt. So, I still strongly advocate using every means possible especially with the standard Hornet case to keep it "jammed" against the breach face when it is fired therefore I will stick to neck sizing over relying on correct rim thickness and the gun manufacturer reaming to ZERO head space.

    Cheers to all
    pjinoz

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Devizes
    Posts
    5,031
    Quote Originally Posted by pjinoz View Post
    Hi Boydy and other readers,
    Sorry to have to disagree with you; although the Hornet case is wedge shaped it DOES have a shoulder (5 deg. 38') and wedge or not it will still make contact in a wedge shaped chamber. I once had a 300 H&H and it had a wedge shaped shoulder (8 deg. 30') and "head spaced" on the belt and if cases were F/L sized it sure did stretch and cause case separation. However, when cases were neck sized only I easily doubled my case life. You are quite correct in suggesting that Hornet cases of thicker rim are better as there will be less head space, BUT even if the Hornet cases you have are 0.065" thick will STILL BE HEAD SPACE as the firearm manufacturer must set head space so that even cases of maximum thickness will easily chamber! One must be careful in saying that Euro cases have correct head space and US not. I have 1000 Winchester cases spread over my Hornet and K-Hornet and they average 0.065", even got a few Rem. cases of the same thickness and was given some Norma cases that were 0.060"- 0.005" below standard. I firstly select cases in the shop with a vernier micrometer to check if they are "on spec". Whilst it may be true that some Euro cases may be of lesser capacity; load limitation can be very strongly influenced by case construction and hardness. A softer case will excessively expand before a hard case. I think it is more worthwhile to determine case capacity after it has been fired and before resizing. Why? Case volume will depend on chamber dimension and unfired "small dimension" cases will expand more than unfired "large dimension but essentially end up equal in exterior dimension after firing. So, back to head spacing on the shoulder. The firearm manufacturer starts out with a NEW "maximum dimension" reamer allowed under chamber tolerances and then begins to cut chambers. When it dulls it is resharpened and is "smaller" in dimensions and continues to cut chambers, resharpen etc UNTIL IT IS TOO SMALL TO PASS SPEC. Then it is thrown in the bin. What are the chamber dimensions of your gun and Fred's down the road? You might have a "magnum" chamber and he a "standard" chamber. You can go a lot further and take a chamber cast with Woods Metal and find out what its internal dimensions are in reality. The last one I took was for my departed Boys .55 cal Anti tank rifle which in this instance confirmed my belief that the "Poms" had simply necked up a Yank .50 cal Browning case to .55 and added a belt. So, I still strongly advocate using every means possible especially with the standard Hornet case to keep it "jammed" against the breach face when it is fired therefore I will stick to neck sizing over relying on correct rim thickness and the gun manufacturer reaming to ZERO head space.

    Cheers to all
    pjinoz
    The comparison on case capacity of different brass is based on FL sized cases for the reasons you state above, everybody's chamber is different. I generally FL size the hornet, in my rifle it gives better accuracy probably down to more consistent neck tension with the thin brass, some of my brass is on its 7th or 8th firing with no issues. It will probably get retired soon as at £22/100 for PPU why push it?

    There is a difference between limiting case stretch with minimal sizing and the rifle headspacing somewhere it is not designed to headspace, the rim headspacing being the main reason the k-hornet chamber is a benefit is having a 'proper' shoulder to headspace on. Guess we'll just agree to disagree.
    Thanks for looking

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    104

    Load Testing / 22 Hornet

    Quote Originally Posted by Boydy47 View Post
    The comparison on case capacity of different brass is based on FL sized cases for the reasons you state above, everybody's chamber is different. I generally FL size the hornet, in my rifle it gives better accuracy probably down to more consistent neck tension with the thin brass, some of my brass is on its 7th or 8th firing with no issues. It will probably get retired soon as at £22/100 for PPU why push it?

    There is a difference between limiting case stretch with minimal sizing and the rifle headspacing somewhere it is not designed to headspace, the rim headspacing being the main reason the k-hornet chamber is a benefit is having a 'proper' shoulder to headspace on. Guess we'll just agree to disagree.
    Hi Boydy,
    What I am trying to emphasize is that even if you use 0.065" thick rims, the firearm manufacturer must allow clearance on this dimension. A FL sized or new case will have greater than 0.065" clearance between the bolt face and chamber and there will be partial head space on "air". If one wishes, it is easy to insert shim metal between the head of a FL sized case in various thicknesses until a light crush fit is achieved on bolt closure. The thickness of this added metal shim plus the rim thickness is the true head space of your gun. Some guns may have very little (yours might) but others more. I prefer to head space on the shoulder. When I had the 300 H&H with its very sloping shoulder I found that after a number of firings resulted in harder and harder to chamber neck sized only rounds. By adjusting the FL die closer and closer to the shell holder I found that chambering did not "free up" until the very sloping shoulder was contacted by the die. There was very minimal differences in the body dimensions during this whole process; this was not the problem, base to shoulder length was.
    Cheers
    pjinoz

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Devizes
    Posts
    5,031
    Quote Originally Posted by pjinoz View Post
    Hi Boydy,
    What I am trying to emphasize is that even if you use 0.065" thick rims, the firearm manufacturer must allow clearance on this dimension. A FL sized or new case will have greater than 0.065" clearance between the bolt face and chamber and there will be partial head space on "air". If one wishes, it is easy to insert shim metal between the head of a FL sized case in various thicknesses until a light crush fit is achieved on bolt closure. The thickness of this added metal shim plus the rim thickness is the true head space of your gun. Some guns may have very little (yours might) but others more. I prefer to head space on the shoulder. When I had the 300 H&H with its very sloping shoulder I found that after a number of firings resulted in harder and harder to chamber neck sized only rounds. By adjusting the FL die closer and closer to the shell holder I found that chambering did not "free up" until the very sloping shoulder was contacted by the die. There was very minimal differences in the body dimensions during this whole process; this was not the problem, base to shoulder length was.
    Cheers
    pjinoz
    But the 300 H&H has a much more pronounced shoulder to headspace on, at 5 degrees the hornet hasn’t really got a shoulder at all hence the k-hornet improvement. If it was possible to remove case stretch and improve headspace by undersizibg brass the k-hornet would never have been necessary.

    Out of interest what is your hornet? Mine’s a CZ 527 which are well known for supporting the hornet rim.
    Thanks for looking

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •