Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16

Thread: High End Scopes Quality

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Dudley
    Posts
    9,211

    High End Scopes Quality

    Following on from my visit to the shoot show yesterday I did notice a couple of the expensive German scopes seem not to be the quality that they used to be? The focus ring on the two big brands were more like a scope from China!. Seems the glass is good but the class has long gone and no gloss black. Mach 1.5

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Eastbourne, East Sussex
    Posts
    3,326
    Quality has taken a nose dive in recent years with nearly everything. With Chinese rubbish made to a lower price and to a low level of quality the top end manufacturers, brands have to compete some how and so cut corners it is Nearly everything we buy nowadays feels and is made to a price. Just look at German cars, no better now than Korean or the good ole Ford. Or even Weihrauch, it pains me to say they are not a patch on what they used to be and that's from a Die Hard dedicated follower
    John Darling JD (1946-2004) was my inspiration to be the best i can and enjoy the sport i love. R.I.P
    A dedicated HW80 Fanatic and owner since 1986 to present.

  3. #3
    look no hands's Avatar
    look no hands is online now Even better looking than a HW35
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Coventry, even closer to Tony L.
    Posts
    11,979
    Quote Originally Posted by jumbuck View Post
    Quality has taken a nose dive in recent years with nearly everything. With Chinese rubbish made to a lower price and to a low level of quality the top end manufacturers, brands have to compete some how and so cut corners it is Nearly everything we buy nowadays feels and is made to a price. Just look at German cars, no better now than Korean or the good ole Ford. Or even Weihrauch, it pains me to say they are not a patch on what they used to be and that's from a Die Hard dedicated follower
    I've been saying this about German products for years, Top Gear reckoned the new Ford Mondeos are just as good as their BMW equivalent, regarding air rifles look at some of the Chinese offerings that have been relabelled by Diana and the mass improvements over the years with rifles like the Remington Express.

    Pete
    Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Dudley
    Posts
    9,211

    Quailty

    I'll stick to buying second hand from a few years ago then. Weihrauch's ain't what they used to be but was really shocked at the S & B scopes and for that price also!! The Zeiss weren't much better and not a patch on my 3-9 X 36 from the mid 80's.
    Mach 1.5

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Hastings
    Posts
    1,498
    Hello to All,

    What many chappies don't seem to realise or appreciate, is that the Chinese make exactly what the customer asks and is willing to pay for.

    Customer asks for shite, built down to el-cheapo price, then that is what the Chinese will make them.

    Ask the Chinese (and pay them) for top-notch quality, and that is what the customer will get.

    There was a very enlightening documentary some time ago on the BBC about a large electronics Expo in China.

    The stands were divided essentially into three (3) sections :

    a) cheap and shite quality
    b) average price and average quality
    c) Expensive and excellent quality

    Each section had similar products, but as the price went up, so did the quality.

    It is the customers fault that most of the Chinese stuff here is shite.

    Have fun & a good Sunday

    Best regards

    Russ

  6. #6
    JerryD is online now Will only use cherry lipbalm
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Oakham, Rutland
    Posts
    2,933
    Best scopes I have (subjective view) are my Bushy 4200 8-32x40s (old Bausch & Lomb design), followed by Leupold VX3 boosted 20-50x50. They are all in excess of 10 years, some older still (Leup is from the late 90s AFAIK), but the brightest and clearest glass I have come across.

    I've had Nightforce, Bushy 6500, seen Kahles, Sightron and even S&B but wouldn't put them as clear as the Bushy 8-32s. I know they are higher mag (except for the 6500) but still rate the Bushy more highly for clarity and ease of use.

    So yes, for me older is better. Shame that neither Premier Reticles Leups nor the Bushy 4200 series are available any more


    .
    Jerry

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Marlborough
    Posts
    13
    Im still using a Seben BA 4-12x 56 which has been on my hw90k for best part of 10 years. Its been flawless in operation.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Ross
    Posts
    1,158
    A chap who I go clay shooting with did a manufacturing project with a Chinese firm. He sent over the specs and they sent back their work.

    It was 100% spot on. Very high quality with the required finish. So he put in a bulk order.

    What he got back was about 50% of the quality. It seems unless you absolutetly tell the Chinese exactly what you want and on repeat and keep checking they will cut corners somewhere in order to make their profits.

    A lot of my scopes are second hand. Mainly because there's no way I could afford them as new and they are often discontinued. Seems to be the way to do it if you know what to look for.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    East Sussex, Nr Rye
    Posts
    17,110
    With CNC machining the way it is then similar products can see very similar.
    Aircraft Grade Aluminium! What is that? Well there are several grades, and manufactures are just not going to tell you.
    Top European scopes are the best, but wow expensive. The coatings and quality of materials are so much higher. Design so much better.

    I agree it is harder to justify if those premium prices are worth it to you. You can only know if its worth it from field use and ten years down the line. I have some of each.

    Scopes now are made to fit the target market. Thats with a profit margin, with only about 20% invested in the actual product manufacture. The rest in operating costs like labour, machinery and manufacturing facility, marketing costs, tax, distribution and margins. Thats consumer products for you, not a lot left for the actual product.

    The scope market is pretty flooded, and plenty of competition. China has improved what it can do no end. Often having bought German, Japanese or Italian CNC machines.
    I look out for who has just invested in the newest technologies and machinery. Old machinery is often passed along from say USA/Japan to somewhere else in Asia. Or a new factory with new kit. Not easy to know if its all new or just a rehash of something older.

    Glass manufacture has completely changed in the last 25 years. Its lighter and easier to cut to any lens shape. Here design really matters. And then there is coatings, and their application to the glass.

    I find the mid range stuff the most confused and the most a gamble. Best brands still seem to produce the best, but the gaps narrowing. Some models of scopes just seems to shine through the masses.
    I tend to go for these, that seem to work well.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    manchester
    Posts
    7,674
    Quote Originally Posted by jumbuck View Post
    Quality has taken a nose dive in recent years with nearly everything. With Chinese rubbish made to a lower price and to a low level of quality the top end manufacturers, brands have to compete some how and so cut corners it is Nearly everything we buy nowadays feels and is made to a price. Just look at German cars, no better now than Korean or the good ole Ford. Or even Weihrauch, it pains me to say they are not a patch on what they used to be and that's from a Die Hard dedicated follower
    It is not just recently either. In 2011 I bought a Leica M 75mm F2 Apo Summicron for not much short of £2000.00 brand new. These were only made in Germany. The focusing ring felt rough as if someone had forgotten to lubricate the helix. I have some 50 year old Leica lenses ( the silver ones ) that feel like a Rolls Royce in operation. Competeing against cheap junk from the far east has taken its toll on the European manufacturing.

    A.G

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    worthing
    Posts
    3,333
    So true, Russ...

    Got to respect a Leica man, AG.....

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    manchester
    Posts
    7,674
    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitwrecker View Post
    So true, Russ...

    Got to respect a Leica man, AG.....
    About the only decent buys that I made my friend. I used to be very seriously into photography and and I must have over £8000.00 worth of digital cameras, both Nikon and Canon, that are not worth the postage if anyone ever bought them for fun. I 'd probably get my money back on the Leicas. Lovely stuff to work with particularly my old M3.

    Regards,

    A.G

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Chelmsford
    Posts
    6,403
    As an aside , Leica have been manufacturing microscopes in china for few years to compete in the bottom end of the market. Quality looks ok on the outside. But not a patch on the old stuff inside.
    High end scopes not only have good glass, but also fine build tolerances internally for accurate adjustment.
    "Shooters, regardless of their preferred quarry, enjoy their sport for its ability to transfer them from their day-to-day life into a world where they can lose themselves for a few hours". B Potts.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Nuneaton
    Posts
    1,345
    I was on the Highland Outdoor stand at the shooting show and couldn't believe how good the Nikko Sterling were.
    If they can be that good for a budget then the top drawer stuff should be amazing

    BBF
    "The grass is always greener on the other side"

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Welshpool
    Posts
    2,710
    You need to look through the scope in poor light or at dusk to assess the quality of the glass.
    Last edited by silva; 25-02-2018 at 12:00 AM.
    "helplessly they stare at his tracks......."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •