Pellet size

[nuggs]

Can anyone tell me that if I bought a tin of say ... .177 jsb exact in 4.53 ,would the majority be 4.53 or just pot luck ? Thanks

[RobF]

Can anyone tell me that if I bought a tin of say ... .177 jsb exact in 4.53 ,would the majority be 4.53 or just pot luck ? Thanks

Pot luck.

[rabbitwrecker]

The number refers to the head size of the die, not the pellet...

[nuggs]

The number refers to the head size of the die, not the pellet...

So if the head size of the die is 4.53 ,what size are the pellets ?

[tinbum]

So if the head size of the die is 4.53 ,what size are the pellets ?

Usually most are from 4.51-4.53, but some may be larger or smaller.

[nuggs]

Usually most are from 4.51-4.53, but some may be larger or smaller.

Getting confused now as I will soon be getting a Steyr hunting and have read many times that it’s better to get the larger 4.53 pellet as could have problems falling out of mag ! So if tins marked 4.53 aren’t really that size why do they apparently stay in the mag better than so called other sizes ? Thanks Mike .

[PhatMan]

nuggs,

If you would like some mind numbing tedium, or an idea for the punishment of naughty children, you could consider using a pellet head gauge :

https://pelletgage.com/

For informational purposes, I went through a few tins of JSB Express, and a few tins of JSB Exact, and found that there is a fair spread of head sizes within each tin, and there is a head-size that is the most common - for the above JSBs, nominally 4.52 mm, 75% were indeed 4.52 mm.

As the above tins were from the same dies (for each type), the information may or may not apply generally ! In addition, I reckon if I did the sorting again, I would probably get different results.

All said and done, I found the most useful aspect of the PelletGage, was that it let me cull the smallest and largest head sizes (4.48 mm, and 4.54 mm for the above nom. 4.52 mm JSBs). The smallest + largest, were, IIRC, around 2 - 3 % of the tin.

Have fun

Best regards

Russ

[Blackrider]

We have debated this one long and hard on here from time to time but yes, as the Guys have said, there is quite a variance in pellet diameters !
I went through the "Pellet gauge measuring excercise" a while back and out of several makes I tried the JSB Exact Express 4.52 were probably the most consistent but even these had inconsistencies.
Its no wonder our groupings are sometimes not as tight as we'd like them as pellets don't always do "what it says on the tin" !

[tinbum]

Getting confused now as I will soon be getting a Steyr hunting and have read many times that it’s better to get the larger 4.53 pellet as could have problems falling out of mag ! So if tins marked 4.53 aren’t really that size why do they apparently stay in the mag better than so called other sizes ? Thanks Mike .

We have a Hunting 5, don't worry about it! The mag isn't designed to be kept loaded in a pocket, and once in the gun the pellets are captive. We use 4.53's put through a 4.50 sizer.

[nuggs]

Thanks for the reply’s ,just one more on pellet sizers , what would be the best measurement to go on ie the head might go through the sizer but the skirt won’t ! Would this make a difference ? Thanks .

[Steyr]

To explain.
You have the calibre size such as .177 .20 .22 .25....
You then the head size such as 4.51 4.52 4.53.......
You also have grain weight such as 7.9 8.4 10.2......the heavier the more loopy the traj will be
You will find that where the barrel is made may suggest that a specific head size will work better. This is basically down to whether the barrel is metric or imperial so a uk barrel may be imperial and a german may be metric so a very fine difference.
However....each barrel is individual and you have to try many brands to find the composition of material the barrel likes. Two consecutive barrels may not like the same pellet. One may love JSB Exact and single hole and the other may hate them.
Even then....you have head size....a 4.51 may shotgun but the 4.52 might be tighter than a gnats sphincter.
Its a little bit of dark magic and down to testing and scrounging pellets to try.

Just to make it more complicated the dies the maker uses wear out so the actual pellet it produces can gradually change as the die wears. As it does so...the pellet from that die may shift in group tightness as production changes.

Some barrels open groups if cleaned or they become dirty. Again...you have to find out if your barrell likes to be dirty or clean. And if cleaned....does it need shots to stabalise again and if so how many.

The pellet material can be lead and if so...what hardness or it may also have antimony in it to make it harder still. The potential problem with antimony is that as you shoot a pellet it lays down a skim of material which has another layer put down by following shots. Then one pellet will scoop it up and become a flyer. This is usually shown in a regular pattern say every 9th or 10th pellet will do a scoot job on you.

The thing is that if you weighed and head sized every pellet in a tin of .177 8.4 grn 4.52 pellets......there WiLL be a variation in weight and head size. Weight can affect POI due to changes in trajectory especially at range and the head size can be 4.51 to 4.53 for example.
However....that tin of 4.52 may be tight grouping even though its weight and head size spans all three head sizes??? Yet if you chose a 4.53 tin.....that must have 4.52 head sizes...it wont group coz your barrel doesnt like them. Weird as hell.

Sometimes it doesnt pay to be too analytical...just accept that is the way it works.

[nuggs]

To explain.
You have the calibre size such as .177 .20 .22 .25....
You then the head size such as 4.51 4.52 4.53.......
You also have grain weight such as 7.9 8.4 10.2......the heavier the more loopy the traj will be
You will find that where the barrel is made may suggest that a specific head size will work better. This is basically down to whether the barrel is metric or imperial so a uk barrel may be imperial and a german may be metric so a very fine difference.
However....each barrel is individual and you have to try many brands to find the composition of material the barrel likes. Two consecutive barrels may not like the same pellet. One may love JSB Exact and single hole and the other may hate them.
Even then....you have head size....a 4.51 may shotgun but the 4.52 might be tighter than a gnats sphincter.
Its a little bit of dark magic and down to testing and scrounging pellets to try.

Just to make it more complicated the dies the maker uses wear out so the actual pellet it produces can gradually change as the die wears. As it does so...the pellet from that die may shift in group tightness as production changes.

Some barrels open groups if cleaned or they become dirty. Again...you have to find out if your barrell likes to be dirty or clean. And if cleaned....does it need shots to stabalise again and if so how many.

The pellet material can be lead and if so...what hardness or it may also have antimony in it to make it harder still. The potential problem with antimony is that as you shoot a pellet it lays down a skim of material which has another layer put down by following shots. Then one pellet will scoop it up and become a flyer. This is usually shown in a regular pattern say every 9th or 10th pellet will do a scoot job on you.

The thing is that if you weighed and head sized every pellet in a tin of .177 8.4 grn 4.52 pellets......there WiLL be a variation in weight and head size. Weight can affect POI due to changes in trajectory especially at range and the head size can be 4.51 to 4.53 for example.
However....that tin of 4.52 may be tight grouping even though its weight and head size spans all three head sizes??? Yet if you chose a 4.53 tin.....that must have 4.52 head sizes...it wont group coz your barrel doesnt like them. Weird as hell.

Sometimes it doesnt pay to be too analytical...just accept that is the way it works.

Thanks for that ,I can at least now blame the pellets for my missed shots and will be happy when the majority of shots go to where I want them .

[trick cyclist]

And this is before we get onto thinking about pellet weight!

Does anyone know which variable has the most effect on accuracy, head size or weight? I'm not sure I have even seen this comparison done anywhere yet, but recall seeing a thread some time ago about what some of the top shooters on this forum do to get consistency from their ammo - pretty sure it involved accurate weighing?

Edit: need to type faster, Steyr got there quicker!

[chris.e]

Good explanation from Steyr - I especially liked the very last sentence about being too analytical.
I had a spell of weighing, sizing, washing and lubing pellets but that all stopped after achieving a personal best from using pellets straight out of the tin.
Now, I only check for damaged pellets.
Having said that, my discipline is Hft and so I might do things differently if I was Benchresting.

[ChrisC]

Steyr covered much of that and with a nice bit of humour too.

I have a very good batch of pellets. I weighed 2 full tins and then worked out that there would have been a 12ft per second difference between the lightest and heaviest in the group. Won't make a great deal of difference if shooting FT or HFT but certainly makes the claims of '4fps spread over a fill' mostly guff.