Air rifles and diminishing returns

[creed]

I dare say this has been dwelt on before but yesterday,whilst visiting my friendly neighbourhood RFD I handled some rifles and enquired of prices as you do.
Air Arms S400 £425
FX Streamline £730 (I think)
Weihrauch HW100 sporter £800
Air Arms HFT500 £900 I will add for comparison purposes.
Admittedly,it was the AA S410 I picked up but I would guess fit is about the same for a S400 although I am happy to be corrected.
Yes,the HW100 was a slightly better fit on the day to me but the S400/410 was so close and I do think the German rifle seemed more "solid" but not twice the price more solid.Would it be twice as accurate?
Thankfully,my hand would not fit around a Daystate thumbhole stock to reach the trigger so at least I am spared looking at £1000+ air rifles.
At what point do you say to yourselves "enough of this lunacy.It's just an air rifle and I will not pay more than £xxx for one"?
So maybe in the near future I will buy an S400 classic ...but that German rifle did seem awfully nice

[JLB]

I agree prices have rocketed over the last few years, and 10 years ago if you would have asked me, would I pay a grand for an air rifle I would have laughed in your face Sadly it seems that's where the prices are, which pushes the second hand prices up as well. Are they worth the money, probably not, but if you want a particular rifle you have to pay the price. And people must be buying them as they wouldn't make them otherwise surely ?

John

[Hsing-ee]

I don't know but I bought I secondhand BSA Scorpion PCP, the first model, and it will shoot 0.2" groups centre to centre in still air at 30 yards off a bench with RWS Superdomes from a tin. I think the rifle was £250 or something.

I don't think I would notice an increase in inherent accuracy from a more expensive rifle. It might be easier to shoot, but that is all.

[secretagentmole]

Funny thing is round here an HW100 will set you back £690!

[bucketboy]

Pretty much the same with anything, clothes, food, cars, houses, electrical good, women etc.

I make parts for my guns, each part has very little effect, the more parts I fit, the less I notice the difference, doesn’t stop me trying to make my gun better.

AA s400 is 1/3 of the price of a an ftp900, the 900 is not 3 times more accurate, not 3 times more consistent not 3 times better but from an engineering point of view, imo it represents better value for money than the 400.

Bb

[Carl2]

I wonder how these places survive unless you are constantly selling rifles. I am guessing most people would only buy the odd rifle possibly years apart. As mentioned last week I have just brought a Walther Classus, it has a Lothar Walther barrel a Minelli stock and cost £199 delivered. I almost feel guilty that I wasn't paying more. Admittedly I would not have brought it if it had been more expensive and I didn't need it so I can't really see the dealers being able to increase prices without loosing customers.

[Muskett]

I expect that for every 20% on a rifle 80% goes on all the other costs. So a £300 rifle only be £60 of rifle. £1,000 you get £200 of rifle. That extra money they can do a lot with.
The second limitation is the pure 12ft/lbs and pushing out a small lead pellet. Consistency getting out of the barrel and consistency flying through the air. The top end rifles with complimentary ammo can deliver incredible accuracy if the marksman is any good. A great trigger makes it easier, the rest is ergonomics. However, the pellet having been fantastically released is soon influenced by outside conditions and that is for the marksman to work out. Its not far, not much more than 10m. But an average rifle won't even set the pellet off perfectly every time, so there is error from the start, which can show at 10m or so. If the pellet set out badly from the start things get worse the further out the pellet goes. Tiny error at 10m is a barn door at 30, above that of the conditions.

Are you good enough to get the most out of a top end rifle? I don't think I am any more, so I relent to the fact I have to shoot at bigger targets. Thats the difference between 1/4" and 3/4". Fortunately the targets I normally shoot at are even bigger, so an average rifle is good enough to keep them there. But that is not going to win some competitive competition...why I don't compete in them. It seems to me my groups with a top end rifle just isn't remarkably different to a good average rifle, because I am too much error. Its not a lot but its there. When I was very young I could shoot and optimise the best rifles.

1/2 my rifles can outshoot me. 1/4 shoot to about what I can do. And a quarter I am handicapped by the rifle as it can't hold it there to what I can do. If tend to find what a rifle can deliver and then cut back to where it can comfortably "hold it there". Some of my springers want to shoot straight but, hold sensitive or what, they don't. Its not really the barrel, pellet, or power send off, its whats going on before it leaves the barrel. Which is why I use the saying: "the rifle wants to shoot accurately".

So if you want absolute accuracy and can use that accuracy then you have to pay. But if you can't, then a plenty good enough rifle can keep it there and save you a bomb. All that extra cost is to get a tiny advantage against the competition if you can deliver. Thats why the top ten on a score board all have rifles that are proven to shoot tiny, but the difference is all how the marksmen read the rest. Its not the rifles. Gets to the stage the kit isn't reason for where on the score board a competitor lands; less than a bit of luck on the day. You can't buy yourself a win, its skill. But having said that to compete then the kit has to be tac driving from the start, which doesn't come cheap.

For the rest of us mer mortals buy what at least can hold you there; and shoot at targets that are possible. Most good guns will do that, outshoot the shooter.

[angrybear]

I dare say this has been dwelt on before but yesterday,whilst visiting my friendly neighbourhood RFD I handled some rifles and enquired of prices as you do.
Air Arms S400 £425
FX Streamline £730 (I think)
Weihrauch HW100 sporter £800
Air Arms HFT500 £900 I will add for comparison purposes.
Admittedly,it was the AA S410 I picked up but I would guess fit is about the same for a S400 although I am happy to be corrected.
Yes,the HW100 was a slightly better fit on the day to me but the S400/410 was so close and I do think the German rifle seemed more "solid" but not twice the price more solid.Would it be twice as accurate?
Thankfully,my hand would not fit around a Daystate thumbhole stock to reach the trigger so at least I am spared looking at £1000+ air rifles.
At what point do you say to yourselves "enough of this lunacy.It's just an air rifle and I will not pay more than £xxx for one"?
So maybe in the near future I will buy an S400 classic ...but that German rifle did seem awfully nice

You have many things to consider, weight, shape, balance, feel, looks, shot count, cocking action, magazine capacity, anti double load, manufacturer support, and a few more besides, But of course you also pay for the name.
I paid something like £80 more for my S510 than the S410 was at the time, because I don't like the S410 cocking bolt but did like the S510 side lever.

I do however agree that "top end" pricing offers little over mid range performance for most people, although I did pay more for my used Rapids than for my new S510's & they're still far better rifles.