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Thread: What I've learnt shooting HFT

  1. #1
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    What I've learnt shooting HFT

    Glorious day for shooting tin chickens yesterday at Kingsley HFT.
    When I was doing my write up afterwards I had a bit of a revelation. 12 months ago I didn't really know what I was doing, but occasionally knocked some targets down. 6 months ago they were falling more regularly, but I wouldn't have been able to to say why I missed certain targets. It would go down on my scorecard as a '1' but I couldn't say what the problem was.

    However now I can usually say exactly why I've plated them. My scores haven't dramatically improved, but they are slowly heading in the right direction. So for me the process of learning to shoot HFT competitively has taken a year to get to the point where I can really start to analyse my shooting. (This is all with a springer). Maybe in 6 months time I'll find out what the next stage is

    Write up, target photos and ranges at the write up below

    http:///hft-kingsley-25-02-18/

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooper_dan View Post
    Glorious day for shooting tin chickens yesterday at Kingsley HFT.
    When I was doing my write up afterwards I had a bit of a revelation. 12 months ago I didn't really know what I was doing, but occasionally knocked some targets down. 6 months ago they were falling more regularly, but I wouldn't have been able to to say why I missed certain targets. It would go down on my scorecard as a '1' but I couldn't say what the problem was.

    However now I can usually say exactly why I've plated them. My scores haven't dramatically improved, but they are slowly heading in the right direction. So for me the process of learning to shoot HFT competitively has taken a year to get to the point where I can really start to analyse my shooting. (This is all with a springer). Maybe in 6 months time I'll find out what the next stage is

    Write up, target photos and ranges at the write up below

    http:///hft-kingsley-25-02-18/
    Great Blog Dan - very interesting to those of us that only punch holes in paper at 10 meters or 6 yards!

    Bob.
    Rossendale Target Shooting Club. Every Tuesday and Thursday evening 7 - 10pm.

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    Nice write up mate! 😊

    Atb
    Daniel

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    I can give you an interesting perspective, I have never shot field target of any ilk or with any style of FT rifle, nor even seen an event, but I have shot the ISSF rifle disciplines to a reasonable standard, and have specifically coached 10 mt air rifle for many years.

    A couple of years ago a shooter joined our club who had got into the top five in FT in the world, he said he always dropped points standing and wanted some coaching. We worked with him and he was nightmare, his answer to everything was, its not like 10 mt, its FT, its different, he argued and we could not teach him any thing. When he shot ten metre, when he was good, he was very good, when he was bad, he was atrocious, slowly and on one particular day the penny dropped when he was shooting with a 16 year old young lady one side and a "mature" lady the other, they were knocking the ten spot off consistently and shooting in the same timing as him but to a much higher standard, and he said, I give up, teach me that technique!
    We refined his position, which improved his stability, took all of twenty minutes, he was taught the importance of getting a perfect natural zero position, i.e. the rifle pointing at the middle naturally, not muscled to the middle, he was put on a diet of shooting black cards, no aiming mark, and finding that natural balanced stable stance and letting the rifle be still not forced still. He was frustrated, he wanted to get back to shooting scores, we said no, not until you can shoot a key holed group on a black card. He was disciplined, he worked at it, and after a few weeks we put him onto aiming marks. The routine now was you will not shoot unless the aim is pointing naturally at the middle, no muscling, think like you did with the black cards, just let it sit, and be pointing at the middle, you will not shoot unless its stable and naturally pointed at the middle, (will not!), when my wife says no, you don't argue!
    Those are the simple parts, when you are getting there the effort shifts to maintaining a degree of precision, precision in the set up of your position, precision of your aim, follow through, all aspect of your technique, and if its not perfect, reject the shot and start again. Add in the necessary dash of discipline and concentration, and now when he's good, he's very good, when he's not good, he stops restarts and becomes good. Slowly the message sank in. By the end of the Winter he was shooting a good national level in ten metre, but now the test was coming, having shot just a handful of local FT shoots he went off to compete in that years World championships.

    The email I got, told that he had come second in the World, and had dropped one shot, and it was prone! And would we now work with him on prone! At the end of the season he said he had a 100% standing record.

    Shooting is shooting regardless of what it is, technique is king, we teach, Precision, A stable base, A perfect Zero, Concentration, and Discipline.

    Have fun and good shooting.
    Robin
    Last edited by RobinC; 22-03-2018 at 09:27 AM.
    Walther KK500 Alutec expert special - Barnard .223 "wilde" in a Walther KK500 Alutec stock, mmm...tasty!! - Keppeler 6 mmBR with Walther grip and wood! I may be a Walther-phile?

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    Robin, thanks for taking the time to write that. I'm not shooting anywhere the level of the chap you were coaching, but recently I've joined a club which has a 10m range. I've been practising standing shots as part of my routine and am slowly managing to improve on this position. At a recent shoot I was joint first on my class, and won the shoot-off by getting both the standing shots.

    In HFT the standing and kneeling shots are commonly the most missed, and the most grumbled about. Now when I approach one my mindset is very different. This is a free point for me that other people will drop.

    On a slightly different note I have a friend who races mountain bikes. As part of his training he rides bmx, dirt jumps, road bike and downhill, then races enduro. All training is good training

  6. #6
    RobinC's Avatar
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    FT

    Glad to help, perhaps point you to top sticky on this page, its ten metre, but I've had several FT shooters contact me and say it helps. NSRA shop has them.

    One of my psychological favourite quotes, is always look at what is difficult or problematic, and like it, its an opportunity for you to be good at it whilst others worry and fail.

    Enjoy your shooting.
    Have Fun
    Robin
    Walther KK500 Alutec expert special - Barnard .223 "wilde" in a Walther KK500 Alutec stock, mmm...tasty!! - Keppeler 6 mmBR with Walther grip and wood! I may be a Walther-phile?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinC View Post
    I can give you an interesting perspective, I have never shot field target of any ilk or with any style of FT rifle, nor even seen an event, but I have shot the ISSF rifle disciplines to a reasonable standard, and have specifically coached 10 mt air rifle for many years.

    A couple of years ago a shooter joined our club who had got into the top five in FT in the world, he said he always dropped points standing and wanted some coaching. We worked with him and he was nightmare, his answer to everything was, its not like 10 mt, its FT, its different, he argued and we could not teach him any thing. When he shot ten metre, when he was good, he was very good, when he was bad, he was atrocious, slowly and on one particular day the penny dropped when he was shooting with a 16 year old young lady one side and a "mature" lady the other, they were knocking the ten spot off consistently and shooting in the same timing as him but to a much higher standard, and he said, I give up, teach me that technique!
    We refined his position, which improved his stability, took all of twenty minutes, he was taught the importance of getting a perfect natural zero position, i.e. the rifle pointing at the middle naturally, not muscled to the middle, he was put on a diet of shooting black cards, no aiming mark, and finding that natural balanced stable stance and letting the rifle be still not forced still. He was frustrated, he wanted to get back to shooting scores, we said no, not until you can shoot a key holed group on a black card. He was disciplined, he worked at it, and after a few weeks we put him onto aiming marks. The routine now was you will not shoot unless the aim is pointing naturally at the middle, no muscling, think like you did with the black cards, just let it sit, and be pointing at the middle, you will not shoot unless its stable and naturally pointed at the middle, (will not!), when my wife says no, you don't argue!
    Those are the simple parts, when you are getting there the effort shifts to maintaining a degree of precision, precision in the set up of your position, precision of your aim, follow through, all aspect of your technique, and if its not perfect, reject the shot and start again.
    Add in the necessary dash of discipline and concentration, and now when he's good, he's very good, when he's not good, he stops restarts and becomes good. Slowly the message sank in. By the end of the Winter he was shooting a good national level in ten metre, but now the test was coming, having shot just a handful of local FT shoots he went off to compete in that years World championships.

    The email I got, told that he had come second in the World, and had dropped one shot, and it was prone! And would we now work with him on prone! At the end of the season he said he had a 100% standing record.

    Shooting is shooting regardless of what it is, technique is king, we teach, Precision, A stable base, A perfect Zero, Concentration, and Discipline.

    Have fun and good shooting.
    Robin
    Fantastic post, and one that resonates! I find I do exactly what you say, I "muscle" the rifle into position on standers, not let it adopt a comfortable and stable natural position.

    Any further tips on position and stance, along with achieving the natural zero, would be most welcome from someone who obviously knows their stuff, but don't tell the other HFTers


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    Quote Originally Posted by rogb View Post
    Fantastic post, and one that resonates! I find I do exactly what you say, I "muscle" the rifle into position on standers, not let it adopt a comfortable and stable natural position.

    Any further tips on position and stance, along with achieving the natural zero, would be most welcome from someone who obviously knows their stuff, but don't tell the other HFTers
    The best bet is to get yourself a copy of Robin's book - but don't let anyone else know that you have it
    Rossendale Target Shooting Club. Every Tuesday and Thursday evening 7 - 10pm.

  9. #9
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    Hello to All,

    +1 on Mr. Carter's book - it is superb, and worth its weight in gold

    Have fun & a good weekend

    Best regards

    Russ

  10. #10
    RobinC's Avatar
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    Book

    Thanks for the compliments, the book is on the NSRA shop website.
    Have Fun
    Robin
    Walther KK500 Alutec expert special - Barnard .223 "wilde" in a Walther KK500 Alutec stock, mmm...tasty!! - Keppeler 6 mmBR with Walther grip and wood! I may be a Walther-phile?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinC View Post
    Thanks for the compliments, the book is on the NSRA shop website.
    Have Fun
    Robin
    OK book ordered, let's see if can apply myself and get some discipline into my positionals rather than the "poke and hope" I tend to use. When I get a kneeler or stander, it is more luck than judgement and so I think when one's approaching, "oh sh3t, donut coming up".
    At the club there are black painted steel zero boards out to 45y, so ideal for practising on.
    I'll let you know


  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogb View Post
    OK book ordered, let's see if can apply myself and get some discipline into my positionals rather than the "poke and hope" I tend to use. When I get a kneeler or stander, it is more luck than judgement and so I think when one's approaching, "oh sh3t, donut coming up".
    At the club there are black painted steel zero boards out to 45y, so ideal for practising on.
    I'll let you know
    Embrace the positionals! Think of them as nice big kill zones that are just begging to be knocking down.
    I got all of mine today except the unsupported stander where the ground was at a funny angle and slippery. I think a lot of people missed this one though....

  13. #13
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    training

    Quote Originally Posted by rogb View Post
    At the club there are black painted steel zero boards out to 45y, so ideal for practising on.
    I'll let you know
    Not so sure you would get the advantage doing that with an FT rifle, principle with a target sight on a black card is to NOT see the fall of shot or have an aiming mark, to just use a natural hold, settle and align, and if its the same and natural each time the shot will go through the same hole, its a training technique.
    The temptation with a scope will be to aim at the first strike which defeats the object. I've also used plain or reversed cards, but had the same issue with young people with superb eyesight who can see a shot hole on a blank card and aim at it, which is why I use black cards. Perhaps borrow/buy a set of target sights, and just concentrate on the alignment of the front to back sight and concentrate on your position and hold.
    I've had shooters who at ten metres can shoot five shot one hole groups like that on a black card, the technique is a development from the Zen monks who shot archery in the dark to develop accepting a perfect zero position.

    Kneeling, Hmmmm, now that is a difficult position, a combination of prone and standing, a cross over of balance, and locked in like prone, a very technical position, which if done well is as locked as prone, and if badly is more difficult than standing!

    Have Fun
    Robin
    Walther KK500 Alutec expert special - Barnard .223 "wilde" in a Walther KK500 Alutec stock, mmm...tasty!! - Keppeler 6 mmBR with Walther grip and wood! I may be a Walther-phile?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinC View Post
    Glad to help, perhaps point you to top sticky on this page, its ten metre, but I've had several FT shooters contact me and say it helps. NSRA shop has them.

    One of my psychological favourite quotes, is always look at what is difficult or problematic, and like it, its an opportunity for you to be good at it whilst others worry and fail.

    Enjoy your shooting.
    Have Fun
    Robin
    Yep, that's why I like pressure as a tool, because it finds the cracks or makes a diamond. If you don't train with pressure in mind you only see the cracks in competition, and then it's too late. If you see the cracks beforehand you may have an opportunity to do something about them.

    Glad to see you're still on it.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinC View Post
    The routine now was you will not shoot unless the aim is pointing naturally at the middle, no muscling, think like you did with the black cards, just let it sit, and be pointing at the middle, you will not shoot unless its stable and naturally pointed at the middle, (will not!), when my wife says no, you don't argue!
    Those are the simple parts, when you are getting there the effort shifts to maintaining a degree of precision, precision in the set up of your position, precision of your aim, follow through, all aspect of your technique, and if its not perfect, reject the shot and start again.
    Nicely put.

    I've been competing in HFT with a springer for the last year and it's finally all coming together.

    I've been learning 10m pistol and found it helps my HFT standing shots no end:
    I get in my natural standing position with my eyes closed then open them, if I'm not pointing at the target I reposition my feet.
    I fitted a hamster to my rifle so it naturally sits perfectly at my eye level for standers and kneelers, it just sits there.
    Same natural aim point apply's for kneeling shots too, if I'm 'muscling' the rifle onto the target I shift my position, then try to let my body 'sag' so I'm still on target but not under muscular tension.

    Work's more often than not!

    I'm concentrating on the mental aspect now.
    Great blog by the way Dan.

    Cheers,

    Matt.
    Last edited by ptdunk; 31-03-2018 at 10:23 AM.

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