Hmm new proof test for precharged guns?

[Hsing-ee]

I've shot airguns for 30 years and as I said earlier, never heard of a pcp cylinder exploding. If it were a issue, we would here of it on a regular basis. Of course there will always be the odd knob who will make news somewhere, but personally I've never been aware any incidents.

My Dad used to tell me stories about various biazarre ways in which people met their ends, one being a Heinz ketchup bottle which exploded and killed someone during the traditional slap-on-the-base routine. Some kind of vacuum and a weakened glass sidewall thing.

The manufacturers are supposed to make the tubes twice as strong as they need to be, so it must be pretty uncommon, even with the cheaper brands. It would be a great way to kill sales if a brand got a reputation for exploding.

[angrybear]

A contact in the trade mentioned the reservoirs for PCP airguns are soon to need proofing at the Birmingham or London proof houses and then regular retesting after a set period?

Anyone have any more information on this?

I believe the EU want PCP cylinders to be subject to retest every 5 or 10 years but it wouldn't be at the proof house because that's not what they do, it would be basically as per scuba cylinders 150% pressure testing.

[Aimstraight]

My Dad used to tell me stories about various biazarre ways in which people met their ends, one being a Heinz ketchup bottle which exploded and killed someone during the traditional slap-on-the-base routine. Some kind of vacuum and a weakened glass sidewall thing.

The manufacturers are supposed to make the tubes twice as strong as they need to be, so it must be pretty uncommon, even with the cheaper brands. It would be a great way to kill sales if a brand got a reputation for exploding.

Taking the example of Steyr, 200 bar PW (pressure working), 300 bar PH (pressure holding). The manual states not to exceed the 200 bar MAX fill. So depending on your source tank, you have to be careful not to exceed that and VERY careful not to get anywhere near the PH value.

The cylinder for the CZ 200S is 190 bar MAX fill (170 bar for CZ T200) and the manual states use a source NOT exceeding 230 bar. The manual advises that the cylinder (design) has been hydraulic tested at 300 bar but goes on to state that the (useable) cylinder incorporates a safety feature that operates (vents) at 250 bar; but that deforms the cylinder making it unusable.

So fill very very slowly for all PCPs!

[Pistol p]

None of this surprises me. A chum of mine who deals with law constant tells me how many colleagues she knows who are served from "foreign" parentage are keen to see changes in the law reference to freedom in firearms. She laughs as she tells me how they are obsessive enough to bitch about how the west is evil, yet are happy enough to wipe their arses with toilet paper while wearing Gucci glasses and Armani suits.

[Aimstraight]

I believe the EU want PCP cylinders to be subject to retest every 5 or 10 years but it wouldn't be at the proof house because that's not what they do, it would be basically as per scuba cylinders 150% pressure testing.

Besides that, there was a thread on here over a year ago that mentioned proposals (IIRC by the EU) for more frequent visual inspection of dive cylinders fitted with an Airgun valve, down from 5 year (current inspection and test) to 2.5 year (as for cylinders used for breathing air). I queried it with our BASC man on here. Never heard the outcome.

Edit: Sorry, the last part of my comment above is incorrect. The proposals were for annual visual on dive cylinders only - any outcome on cylinders with Airgun valve was not fully established. The thread is HERE.

[Hsing-ee]

None of this surprises me. A chum of mine who deals with law constant tells me how many colleagues she knows who are served from "foreign" parentage are keen to see changes in the law reference to freedom in firearms. She laughs as she tells me how they are obsessive enough to bitch about how the west is evil, yet are happy enough to wipe their arses with toilet paper while wearing Gucci glasses and Armani suits.

Can we have that in English please?

[Peter Dunkley]

Hi Birmingham proof house do not do pressure testing for compressed air so that part of your mates tale is duff info.
I dont know how many of you have taken the air cylinder off a gun!!
I have done a few air arms ones and each was fitted with a screw thread, Quite a long one and very fine but the actual seal was an "O" ring which was squashed into a flare on the receiver. The actual thread was weaker at this point so an overfill would burst the "O" ring out at this point. BUT a groove is cut along the length of the thread so the air would escape down this groove. Would be a bit exciting but not dangerous.
I do hope its just a tall tale as it's unenforceable.

Of course a weakness anywhere else might be dangerous but abnormal overfilling I doubt would blow up a cylinder.

[Aimstraight]

I believe the EU want PCP cylinders to be subject to retest every 5 or 10 years but it wouldn't be at the proof house because that's not what they do, it would be basically as per scuba cylinders 150% pressure testing.

Without an inspection inside the cylinder, it would never be as thorough as the internal inspection and pressure test of a dive cylinder. So potentially they might be requalify a component for 5 or 10 years without actually knowing whether it is corroded inside? If they perform an internal inspection they would need the service manuals and spare part/seals.

[JerryD]

Personally, I've never heard of a pcp cylinder exploding, anyone ??

Several eyars ago (90s??) a GC2 production cylinder ruptured during filling.This was not the end plug blowing out, or an aftermarket jobbie, but a mainstream, factory supplied cylinder. I believe the failure was eventually traced to some inclusion from the original alloy melt which caused a weakened grain structure.

Since then, any GC2 going for servicing won't be touched until the cycilnder has been inspected.

So yes, it can happen - and has.




.

[Shedder]

PCPs are still relatively "new" as a technology. Is there a risk that cylinders will corrode in time with greater age?Especially any made from aluminium alloys? (Are there any?).
Would corrosion cause slow leaks or a massive failure?
It may be that as time goes on a procedure from some sort of testing may be desirable how ever little we would like it.

[Steyr]

Personally, I've never heard of a pcp cylinder exploding, anyone ??

You are wrong. The owner of GinB was involved in such an incident. Using alternative gases like pure oxygen can encourwge rapid disassembly too......scuba tanks also fail....remember seeing one that had failed in a Volvo estate. It looked lime a bald puffa fish.

[Steyr]

Hmm. So if you have a rifle with a fill pressure of 200 bar and fill it with a 300 bar tank, the cylinder can go BOOM? Sounds like they are a bit under-engineered.

I think you will find failure due to product is not common. It is either the age of the pressure vessel not being checked within reasonable time scales to look for potential failure or operatir error.

Thes units are usually seriously over pressured at developement well above their SWP. But there is no accounting for human error.

[Aimstraight]

Several eyars ago (90s??) a GC2 production cylinder ruptured during filling.This was not the end plug blowing out, or an aftermarket jobbie, but a mainstream, factory supplied cylinder. I believe the failure was eventually traced to some inclusion from the original alloy melt which caused a weakened grain structure.

Since then, any GC2 going for servicing won't be touched until the cycilnder has been inspected.

So yes, it can happen - and has.

Suppose manufacturing defect is possible - was this an aluminium alloy cylinder? I read on here about an issue with the alloy cylinder on an older FWB C02 pistol (Model C25) in regard to fatigue. It seems the strength of some alloy cylinders might not be as good as steel (all dependent on many variables/design stresses/gas in use).

[Aimstraight]

You are wrong. The owner of GinB was involved in such an incident. Using alternative gases like pure oxygen can encourwge rapid disassembly too......scuba tanks also fail....remember seeing one that had failed in a Volvo estate. It looked lime a bald puffa fish.

Post #27 of THIS thread suggests it was not a bog standard cylinder.

[Rog5]

Probably one of the best reasons for not using a pump, I used one when I first got a pcp, when I came to strip it, the cylinder had brown sludge inside, I have never used one since. Rog