Webley Longbow and Omega (and does anyone have a copy manual for these?)

[andrewM]

My earlier thread ('Best Webley and BSA from 1980 Onwards'), which attracted plenty of contributions, has stimulated me into purchasing two of the most popular rifles named by contributors which, coincidentally, also happened to be available.

I have tried to upload an image/attachment of the Longbow purchase but how do I do this? In the FAQs, it says I should visit the box 'manage attachments', at the foot of the thread, but I can find no such box. It also says on my 'posting permissions' that "You may not post attachments". What should I do?


1a) Longbow 5.5 calibre: per chance, I discovered a near mint Longbow, which was one item from a collection sold to a local gunsmith. The Longbow has hardly been used and is in mint condition. The previous elderly owner would fire six shots and then return it to its box. The rifle is accompanied by a Nikko 4x32 scope. The rifle is made in Birmingham so, perhaps, is one of the last to have been manufactured there. It has the same magnificent blueing as the old Webley Mk3. It has a short barrel so is, presumably, a carbine, and it has a silencer. There are, alas, no open sights on this model.

b) Is it possible to date it from the serial number, I wonder?

c) Pellets: an initial test demonstrates clover-leaf groups at 25yds, with Accupells. A slightly looser group was evident with Superdomes. BSA Elites had to be pushed hard into the barrel and shot well below the target, probably because of the tight fit and very low resulting velocity. I wonder what other owners find are best suited?

d) Power is approx. 11.3 - 11.4 ft/lbs according to the gunsmith.

e) Trigger: it seems pretty impressive to me although some familiarity will assist.

f) Safety Catch: care must be taken to break the barrel fully to lock it.

The cost, at £350 was not cheap but for a minter, no longer produced in Birmingham, I thought this was worthwhile.


2a) Omega: I bought this, second hand, from Protek. It has had a few bumps, scratches and knocks. It is, I am informed, a 1986 model and it appears to be an old .22, as opposed to the modern 5.5mm calibre (per the Longbow). As such, the rather larger BSA Elite pellets fit the breach more comfortably, as do old Ely Wasps and Defiant .22 pellets. Superdomes and Accupells are a looser fit but seem to perform at worthwhile velocities. Perhaps, during its period of production, the barrel was altered to 5.5 from .22. The rifle also reminds me, somewhat, of the Original 45 - rough, ready and reliable and similar in size.

b) Is it possible to date the rifle precisely from the serial number?

c) The rifle seems to be performing well and with tight consistency at around 11.2 - 11.3 ft/lbs.

d) Sights: happily, this still has its open sights, which I am keen to use. Initial groupings came out at about 1in over 25 yds but the addition of a telescope considerably narrowed the groups, which tells me either that my eyes are not what they were or else the sights are not as good as those on one of my old BSA Standards, or Mk3. Further testing will be required and the light was fading.

e) Trigger: not as good as the Longbow but not bad either but it needs lightening a touch. Some practice will easily overcome any difficulty here, I think.

f) Safety Catch: this seems to be working admirably.



Conclusion: I am, of course, delighted with these new acquisitions and especially the mint Longbow. Contributors to my earlier thread stimulated me into the purchases, which now align my interests and sympathies to their own. I wonder what pellets they find best with these models? As for the Longbow, I would think this must surely provide worthy competition for HW break-barrels.


3 Request: I am wondering if any kind reader has a copy manual for both rifles or knows of a website where I can download them? A photocopy would be fine for both and I shall pay any necessary expenses!

[Troubledshooter]

Here's a link to the Omega manual on my sig site:

http://mynetimages.com/album/Trouble...ega_Air_Rifle/

Here's the Longbow Manual:

http://mynetimages.com/album/Trouble...ebley_Longbow/

[les allam]

My Longbow likes Air arms field 5.53.
Well done on getting a Brumbow they are a cracking gun.
Les

[Mach 1.5]

Very difficult to date longbows via their serial numbers sorry to say. All Brumbows come with a 13 inch screw cut walther barrels and no open sights. Great rifle. I own 3 myself including a longstroked .20 cal. Mach 1.5

[Geezer]

Very difficult to date longbows via their serial numbers sorry to say. All Brumbows come with a 13 inch screw cut walther barrels and no open sights. Great rifle. I own 3 myself including a longstroked .20 cal. Mach 1.5

Indeed, and they were only made for three years - 2002-2005.

Your .20" sounds rather special (special = nice).

I sometimes wonder about how the Longbow would shoot and handle with the 15" Webley barrel used on the early Tomahawks (straight swap). Less of a carbine, slightly more a rifle.

[andrewM]

Thank you, Troubledshooter, for the manuals for both rifles - your kindness was much appreciated.

Yes, Mach 1.5, it is a 13inch barrel, with threading for a silencer, which was supplied.

Thanks Geezer. Most helpful to discover it was made only during the years 2002-5, which suggests few were produced (I wonder if anyone knows how many), so I count myself most fortunate to have found one in mint condition, even at £350. It is a pity they did not produce open sights but I feel it must compete with HWs, from what I have seen of it so far (and it is better in my view than the Omega (mine is 1986) which received plenty of support here) and the accuracy with Accupells and I now understand why so many people commented so highly in my earlier thread. I do not have an HW so have no means of comparison, however. With such quality, it is bewildering and very sad to think that Webley closed.

Unlike the .22 Omega, the Longbow does not care for the old calibre .22 pellet. The trajectory collapsed when I fired four BSA Elites through the barrel, which I gather are over 5.6mm and accounted for the near impossible fit. I had read, here, that some 5.5mms prefer .22, which provide better accuracy; the FW127 was a case in point for one owner, who still had a supply of Eley Wasps.

Les Allam, I shall try AA Field pellets, as you advise.

I am rather stuck now as to what else to collect but am reluctant to exceed my personal limit of 10, as I like to use them. I am drawn to older rifles so it might be an Airsporter Mk1 or 2, or a Superstar or a Mercury S ll, per glowing reports received here. But I have yet to acquire an HW and I have a soft spot for recent or modern Dianas.

[PCPShooter]

FTT in both 5.53 and 5.54 are worth trying
Superdome
Defiant Vintage (if still around)

The Longbow will be a Walther barrel the Omega a slightly wider UK Webley made barrel most likely

AA usually go well too, and many of the Bisley Pellets - LRG, Superfield

[Geezer]

Thank you, Troubledshooter, for the manuals for both rifles - your kindness was much appreciated.

Yes, Mach 1.5, it is a 13inch barrel, with threading for a silencer, which was supplied.

Thanks Geezer. Most helpful to discover it was made only during the years 2002-5, which suggests few were produced (I wonder if anyone knows how many), so I count myself most fortunate to have found one in mint condition, even at £350. It is a pity they did not produce open sights but I feel it must compete with HWs, from what I have seen of it so far (and it is better in my view than the Omega (mine is 1986) which received plenty of support here) and the accuracy with Accupells and I now understand why so many people commented so highly in my earlier thread. I do not have an HW so have no means of comparison, however. With such quality, it is bewildering and very sad to think that Webley closed.

Unlike the .22 Omega, the Longbow does not care for the old calibre .22 pellet. The trajectory collapsed when I fired four BSA Elites through the barrel, which I gather are over 5.6mm and accounted for the near impossible fit. I had read, here, that some 5.5mms prefer .22, which provide better accuracy; the FW127 was a case in point for one owner, who still had a supply of Eley Wasps.

Les Allam, I shall try AA Field pellets, as you advise.

I am rather stuck now as to what else to collect but am reluctant to exceed my personal limit of 10, as I like to use them. I am drawn to older rifles so it might be an Airsporter Mk1 or 2, or a Superstar or a Mercury S ll, per glowing reports received here. But I have yet to acquire an HW and I have a soft spot for recent or modern Dianas.

The Longbows were all threaded, and sold with a pepper-pot style "muzzle brake" (which actually serves no useful purpose). They are hard to find, but I believe the one used on BSA PCPs fits and looks fairly similar though not identical.

Like you, I think the Longbow is Webley's best springer. It does compare with the HWs. If you are being picky, you can still detect its Webley Vulcan ancestry in the standard firing cycle, and the trigger, while good, is still not a Rekord/CD. Stock, balance, and handling are great.

As is build quality and, especially, finish.

Webley's demise is a consequence not of the quality of their products, but of outdated processes, poor management, and consequent failure to compete in the World and, over time, UK market. Decisions like bringing out a high-priced break barrel (Omega) to compete with the HW77, or trying to sell premium springers like the Bow when almost all premium buyers wanted a PCP. Frankly, I think the business was on borrowed time from the 1930s, when they lost the contract for British Army revolvers (and bear in mind that BSA was in no better financial shape until the Gamo takeover).

[andrewM]

Thanks Geezer/PCPShooter for your interesting comments.

Geezer, I have the muzzle attachment on my Longbow and can only imagine it serves to protect the end of the barrel. I have placed the silencer on instead but I think this makes little difference to the noise. I fear that all you say about Webley is correct - bang on. If the buyer had retained production in the UK then it would still have a traditional following. Outsourcing to Turkey has generated a considerable degree of contempt, methinks. I would certainly not buy a precision instrument from Turkey; lentils maybe.

I read with interest your observations, PCPShooter. I have now carried out more extensive testing, with nine different varieties of pellets on the Omega (1986 make). Mine hates Superdomes, with wide groupings and yet yours loves them. As you say, this is a wider calibre, ie .22. However, paradoxically, it is quite partial to Accupells, which fall 1/2cm into the barrel, so loose a fit are they. Yes, Defiant Vintage do quite well and it seems to prefer Bisley Superfield and BSA Elites (which are quite wide in diameter). I will obtain some AA and FTT and see what they can do.

Have yet to test the Longbow - no time yet - but it was performing tighter groups with S.domes and really liked Accupells. This pellet testing thing is expensive; one needs to spend £100 on pellets to see what works best (although I appreciate specialised packages can be obtained, albeit not cheaply), with a considerable expenditure of time, whilst also taking notes for future consultation.