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Thread: Pellet Advice ?

  1. #1
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    Blackrider is offline It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got a Spring
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    Pellet Advice ?

    Dropping in on the Target Chaps for a wee bit of advice please.
    I own both a Fwb 300S and SU (both lefties but its not really relevent) which I ve not really had chance to shoot yet. Not competativly but for fun at my local club so Im considering giving it a go this week !
    I already have the usual suspects in relation to pellets ;
    M'kulgen, Hobby's, R10 etc. but are there others I should considering ?
    "When you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, get up and switch it on yourself" !

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    Blackrider,

    I use the below in my FWB300 (Not 'S') and 300SU with complete satisfaction :

    RWS R10 Pistol 4.50 (Nominal wt 7.0 gr., actual wt 6.99 gr.)
    JSB Match Green 4.50 (Nominal wt 7.3 gr., actual wt 7.32 gr.)
    Qiang Yuan Match 4.50 (Nominal wt 8.2 gr., actual wt 7.85 gr.)

    You can get the Qiang Yuan from Intershoot or Edenkille.

    I also use JSB Express 4.52 (Nominal wt 7.87 gr., actual wt 7.88 gr.) for shooting from 10 to 40 meters.

    Have fun

    Best regards

    Russ

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhatMan View Post
    Blackrider,

    I use the below in my FWB300 (Not 'S') and 300SU with complete satisfaction :

    RWS R10 Pistol 4.50 (Nominal wt 7.0 gr., actual wt 6.99 gr.)
    JSB Match Green 4.50 (Nominal wt 7.3 gr., actual wt 7.32 gr.)
    Qiang Yuan Match 4.50 (Nominal wt 8.2 gr., actual wt 7.85 gr.)

    You can get the Qiang Yuan from Intershoot or Edenkille.

    I also use JSB Express 4.52 (Nominal wt 7.87 gr., actual wt 7.88 gr.) for shooting from 10 to 40 meters.

    Have fun

    Best regards

    Russ
    Russ I'm sorry to be SO pedantic but there is no way your measuring instruments are accurate enough to tell you that the pellet with a stated weight of 7.87 gr has an actual weight of 7.88. This applies to all of the measurements you quoted above. My A level physics master would call it 'spurious accuracy'. and he was right. This is along the lines of quoting power to 2 places of decimals when the pellets were taken straight from the tin without any attempt at weighing them. The fact that your pellet scales displays a number to 2 places of decimals does not mean it is accurate to that degree. It certainly isn't.
    'It may be that your sole purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackrider View Post
    Dropping in on the Target Chaps for a wee bit of advice please.
    I own both a Fwb 300S and SU (both lefties but its not really relevent) which I ve not really had chance to shoot yet. Not competativly but for fun at my local club so Im considering giving it a go this week !
    I already have the usual suspects in relation to pellets ;
    M'kulgen, Hobby's, R10 etc. but are there others I should considering ?
    Bisley Practice, John. I think they're H&N's budget line, re-branded. And just seem 'nicer' than the honest working-man's Hobbys.

    And they come in a proper screw top tin!
    Last edited by Rickenbacker; 13-03-2018 at 03:27 PM.

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    Rapidnick,

    I should have said 'measured average wt', but thought that was a bit cumbersome.

    The actual weights I have cited are the average of the weighing of three hundred (300) individual pellets on a 5dp (0.01 mg) lab balance (Sartorius Quintix).

    In addition, you can get a good estimate for the average weight of a pellet on a 2 dp scale - if you weigh say 100 to 200 pellets, and divide the measured weight by the number of the pellets. You just need to make the weight of the item being weighed to be huge in relation to the scale uncertainty. This method will not give you any of the variance in individual pellet weights, but will give you a good estimate of the average weight.

    Have fun

    regards

    Russ
    Last edited by PhatMan; 13-03-2018 at 03:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenbacker View Post
    Bisley Practice, John. I think they're H&N's budget line, re-branded. And just seem 'nicer' than the honest working-man's Hobbys.

    And they come in a proper screw top tin!
    Thanks Phil !
    "When you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, get up and switch it on yourself" !

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhatMan View Post
    Rapidnick,

    I should have said 'measured average wt', but thought that was a bit cumbersome.

    The actual weights I have cited are the average of the weighing of three hundred (300) individual pellets on a 5dp (0.01 mg) lab balance (Sartorius Quintix).

    In addition, you can get a good estimate for the average weight of a pellet on a 2 dp scale - if you weigh say 100 to 200 pellets, and divide the measured weight by the number of the pellets. You just need to make the weight of the item being weighed to be huge in relation to the scale uncertainty. This method will not give you any of the variance in individual pellet weights, but will give you a good estimate of the average weight.

    Have fun

    regards

    Russ
    Thanks Russ and to Nick for his valued input !
    "When you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, get up and switch it on yourself" !

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    FWB 300S and 300SU.

    When we used to shoot these rifles back in the early 1970's they were the "top choice" and were by far the most popular "serious" match rifles in use around the UK clubs and at the open meetings. They far out-numbered the challenge from the rival Walther LGR, LGR Match and LGR Match Universal types at the open meetings but were seriously challenged in outright popularity around the clubs by the excellent Original Model 66 and Model 75's.

    There was not a big choice of diablo pellets for target shooting back then and the RWS Meisterkugeln was by far the most popular type to be used in the 300S and 300SU match rifles around the clubs and at the open matches, but the less expensive RWS Hobby pellet was also used a fair bit in the clubs for practice and by newcomers to "save a few pennies".

    H&N also had a good pellet back in those days, but for what ever reason it was not used as often as the Meisterkugeln although the white oblong metal tins of 200 "H&N selected" pellets (held in two foam layers) were popular as were the yellow plastic snap case of x100 Meisterkugeln "selected" pellets for match competitors .

    Also available at that time was the Eley Match pellet that became popular - and was a "compulsory" pellet to use if you entered the "Eley Competition" - as I enjoyed doing several times with my 300S during that same time period.

    I like the idea of using "classic" pellets in "classic" match rifles such as the FWB 300S and 300SU but with so many other options (and weights) now available it would be good to know your findings with so many more types to chose from.

    There is also the possibility that even those classic pellets mentioned above are not exactly the same as they were back in the 70's - and a popular theory (often heard) is that the H&N pellets are nothing like those of the same name that were used at the time (!) so all you can really test is those that can be bought now!
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  9. #9
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    Both my 300s & 300su seem to favour the heavier 8.2g RWS meisterkugeln over the 8.2g R10's. Tried the lighter 7g in both and again not as good.

    John
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  10. #10
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    I recently bought my 300S and put new seals in. As my local shop was out of R10 rifle, I tried R10 pistol and they were very consistent. I then got some R10 rifle and although needed to adjust sights slightly for difference, the consistency is still excellent, so in mine I have left it with R10 rifle but it would be just as good on R10 pistol.
    I have not tested other pellets as these in my 300S are far more consistent than my wobbly aim and I have managed a 58/60 score by wobbling on to the target at the right time.
    Enjoy shooting your 300's whatever pellet you choose - from what I have read, they will not be far off.

  11. #11
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    Hello to All,

    As an aside, the RWS R10 Rifle pellets that I have measured, are a bit lighter than the nominal weight.

    Nominal wt 8.2 gr.

    Measured average weight 7.77 gr.

    (Again from weighing one hundred (100) individual pellets on 5 dp lab balance).

    As Zooma says, there is just something 'right' about using 'period correct' pellets in these vintage springers - mind you the RWS Meisterkuglen are excellent pellets in their own right.

    I use the RWS R10 Pistol a lot in my vintage springers : I bought 40000 of them - the sleeve price I paid was not far off what I would have paid for a sleeve of Meisterkugeln

    I still have some of the Eley Match pellets - I bought a lot of them, 20 or 30 thousand, from a chap in Birmingham back in the day for a very good price - looking back, almost too good to be true !!

    IIRC, the Eley Match were made by H&N for Eley.

    Have fun & a good weekend

    Best regards

    Russ

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhatMan View Post
    Rapidnick,

    I should have said 'measured average wt', but thought that was a bit cumbersome.

    The actual weights I have cited are the average of the weighing of three hundred (300) individual pellets on a 5dp (0.01 mg) lab balance (Sartorius Quintix).

    In addition, you can get a good estimate for the average weight of a pellet on a 2 dp scale - if you weigh say 100 to 200 pellets, and divide the measured weight by the number of the pellets. You just need to make the weight of the item being weighed to be huge in relation to the scale uncertainty. This method will not give you any of the variance in individual pellet weights, but will give you a good estimate of the average weight.

    Have fun

    regards

    Russ
    I should've realised Russ that you were using laboratory scales for weighing your pellets but as I'm sure you will accept, most on here don't! It still doesn't stop them displaying ft lb figures to 2 places of decimals which is, as I wrote earlier , spurious accuracy.
    'It may be that your sole purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others'.

  13. #13
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    Nick,

    I should have mentioned initially what the pellets were weighed on.

    I don't have access to the Sartorious scales anymore - bugger

    I do have a 5 dp balance at home, but it is an old Stanton SM12 two (2) pan :

    http://stanton-instruments.co.uk/page18.html

    and it would take a very long time to measure one (1) hundred pellets

    (It took almost three (3) hours using the Sartorious !)

    WRT reporting spurious accuracy in measurements, I agree - it seems to have taken a serious hold now that everything has a digital read-out !

    Have fun & a good weekend

    Best regards

    Russ

  14. #14
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    Same thread, extended the question to old 'period' pellets

    Interesting to see Zooma and Phatman commenting on period pellets.
    Having returned recently to current match shooting with an old 300S, I have some 'period' match pellets from about 30 years ago and they are in the original packaging, some tins, some card boxes. They look dull grey now but ...... are they still good for use or does the lead deteriorate or get hard over the years? They look like a drop of pellet lube would bring them back to new?
    It is unlikely I would use them for competition but just curious whether or not they would be suitable.

  15. #15
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    Eley have launched Tenex pellets and I see a number of top shooters have already moved over to them.

    No idea of cost but worth a try. Three different sizes so hopefully one will suit.

    They also have a lower priced pellet, again in three different sizes. I've not found anywhere that seems to stock them and nothing online

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