let's talk about accuracy

[Jonjon79]

Nowadays on the forums or in those 'expert' gun reviews, when people brag the accuracy of their rifles, they often say something like '5p group at 30 yeards, 50p group at 50 yards' or 'half inch @35 yard' or something along that line.

For my eyes, those claims make me laugh and I seriously not recommend to buy any of those things as those rifles should be sent back to the factory because they are, effectively, defective at best or show the person behind the trigger incompetent.

What's wrong with someone being happy with a 5p group at 30yrds? - this is a hobby for everyone to enjoy. Not everybody hunts or, wants to become sniper No 1.

It doesn't make them incompetent.

During the past 12 years as air gun hobbist, all of my past and current 4 rilfes, an AA410, a logun S16 Evo, an HW100 and an FX Verminater all did much better when paired with a Leapers 4-16*56 scope.
It's a norm to have one pellet hole at 35 yeards. Before someone jumped in to say that's not possible, let me emphasis that whenever I get a new gun I alway take time to fine the best pellet for that particular gun. It's like marriage, there are million of million women on this planet but not every one suits you. Same goes to air rifles and pellets.

The most accurate rifle, to everybody's surprise, to mine as well, is the humble Logun S16Evo. This gun was branded by Tony @ Sand Well Field Sport as totally rubbish and donkey's rilfe despite he sold the gun to me only a few weeks earlier.

I used to shoot it at the Birmingham indoor range at Hockley (are they stll in business?). Most club memeber there have bigger louder real guns. When the little toy gun came out of the bag, noboday paid attention.
But when it started to hit constantly the tiny metal wire of the cloth hanger someone put out at the end of the 50 yard range to hang their paper target, curiosty started to rise and everyone started to admire how far the air guns had envolved from the springers.

the HW100 is another remarkably precision tool, which loves Logun Penetrator. When I acquired this gun I left Birmingham already and had no chance to shoot at metal cloth hander any more. I took it with a few friends on a hunting trip at luckyard farm at Somerset. Friends put out a group of different size spinner at 30, 50 and 70 yards. This gun had no trouble what's so ever hit the tiniest farest spinner.

You didn't hit the tiniest farest spinner every time.

Later I got a FX Verminator, in the begining it was like shit with AA Field and most of the pellet I could get hold of. I had some much trouble to have a tight group I almost gave up until one day I found some pellets someone left on the bench @ peter's farm.
I tried it and the gun instantly started to amaze me. Later I found out the pellets were Webly AccuPell. Once again I could achive same group as my Logon did. I used it for a good months for both targeting and hunting. Although they were excellent for paper punching but there were far many rabbits running away after being shot in the brain than I would tolerate. After talking to someone in the farm I learned it might due to the pellet light weight and he recommended Bislay Magnum. I bought one box and before the first mag was consumped, I know I found another pellet this Verminator loves. having heavy weight pellets the gun had to have a little bit more hold over but once the scope was re-zeored, amzing things happened. I no longer had any runner any more, not for rabbit at least. Occuasonly piegons could fly away but not a single rabbit ran away.

Now share your story about accuracy and let me know if you think 5p grouping at 30 yards is laugh stock or not?

Not

Your enthusiasm and passion for the sport are a good thing but, I fear that you could be a bit off-putting for new shooters.

Tell me, what range do you shoot quarry out to?

[Terry D]

Nowadays on the forums or in those 'expert' gun reviews, when people brag the accuracy of their rifles, they often say something like '5p group at 30 yeards, 50p group at 50 yards' or 'half inch @35 yard' or something along that line.

For my eyes, those claims make me laugh and I seriously not recommend to buy any of those things as those rifles should be sent back to the factory because they are, effectively, defective at best or show the person behind the trigger incompetent.

Well, that's most of us told, then!

I've obviously been merely playing at this sport of ours over the years, because a 5p-size group at 30 yards is perfectly acceptable to me, especially on an outdoor range. I've produced many of the famed 'single-holers' at ranges up to 55 yards over the years, but many things must come together for this to happen.

Bobby, if you really can hit tiny spinners at 70 yards with any degree of regularity under hunting conditions, I'd genuinely like to do a feature on you and your techniques. If you PM me on here, we can get something organised.

Regards.

[TRS1]

I'm clearly rubbish then!

A good day for me is not getting any wee on the toilet seat. I have to focus on my breathing though.

[nuggs]

I'm clearly rubbish then!

A good day for me is not getting any wee on the toilet seat. I have to focus on my breathing though.

I laughed at this and had a little wee myself 🤣😂🤣

[LESS THAN FORTUITOUS KENNETH]

I'm clearly rubbish then!

A good day for me is not getting any wee on the toilet seat. I have to focus on my breathing though.

What hold do you use?

[TRS1]

What hold do you use?

I may be gripping too tight.

[LESS THAN FORTUITOUS KENNETH]

I may be gripping too tight.

Yeah. You really need to let it have it's head.

[brian747]

Well, that's most of us told, then!

I've obviously been merely playing at this sport of ours over the years, because a 5p-size group at 30 yards is perfectly acceptable to me, especially on an outdoor range. I've produced many of the famed 'single-holers' at ranges up to 55 yards over the years, but many things must come together for this to happen.

Bobby, if you really can hit tiny spinners at 70 yards with any degree of regularity under hunting conditions, I'd genuinely like to do a feature on you and your techniques. If you PM me on here, we can get something organised.

Regards.

Hi Terry ,whats the betting he declines your kind offer, for me 5p size groupings
at 25/30 yds are perfectly good for ensuring humane shooting of pests
which is what i want to achieve, hft marksman i will never be as long as
i can accurately shoot dead my prey ethicaly & humanely that will do for me!!!!
atb brian

[cooper_dan]

Hi Terry ,whats the betting he declines your kind offer, for me 5p size groupings
at 25/30 yds are perfectly good for ensuring humane shooting of pests
which is what i want to achieve, hft marksman i will never be as long as
i can accurately shoot dead my prey ethicaly & humanely that will do for me!!!!
atb brian

Brian. You might not have realised, but 5p groups at 25/30 yards will get you a long way in HFT. There are some 15mm kills, but most are 20 or 25mm, up to 45mm. Much bigger than a 5p (18mm).
The main skills (in my opinion) are range finding, judging the wind, and being able to shoot from different positions. All transferable from hunting. You might surprise yourself with how well you do if you gave HFT a go

regards
Dan

[brian747]

Brian. You might not have realised, but 5p groups at 25/30 yards will get you a long way in HFT. There are some 15mm kills, but most are 20 or 25mm, up to 45mm. Much bigger than a 5p (18mm).
The main skills (in my opinion) are range finding, judging the wind, and being able to shoot from different positions. All transferable from hunting. You might surprise yourself with how well you do if you gave HFT a go

regards
Dan

Hi Dan, if only i had the spare time , all my time is taken up with my x16 shoots
which keep me very busy, so i am afraid HFT & FT is out for me .
I give my shoots 100% of my time as they need regular visits.
atb brian

[Terry D]

I would not hold your breath waiting Terry as most of these airgun Chris Kyle's never come up with the proof . They tend to go quiet then pop up when they think people have forgotten these threads.

I guess time will tell, but I am genuinely always willing to learn from those who can do what I can't.

On a broader level, I've made similar invitations to those who claim to hunt at extreme ranges with sub-12 rifles. I've also had strong criticism, along the lines of, 'just because you can't do it, it doesn't mean I can't', when I've stated that my personal hunting range limit is 45 yards, and then ONLY under perfect conditions. For 'perfect', read not a breath of wind, rested rifle, range known to the inch and me on top form. In most of my hunting, 35 yards is the max, and even that will drop as the wind rises or becomes less predictable. To date, no one has accepted my invitation to show me how they reliably take rabbits, pigeons and corvids at 50, 60, 70 yards, and even beyond. The key term, here, is 'reliably'. I'm not talking about some irresponsible fluke you paced out, once. This is about repeatable accuracy, first time, under hunting conditions.

That offer stands and it's open to anyone, with rangefinders and any stance permitted. As stated, this is a genuine offer, with no 'side' or hidden agenda. If you can do it, I'd love to see how.

Regards.

[bighit]

I guess time will tell, but I am genuinely always willing to learn from those who can do what I can't.

On a broader level, I've made similar invitations to those who claim to hunt at extreme ranges with sub-12 rifles. I've also had strong criticism, along the lines of, 'just because you can't do it, it doesn't mean I can't', when I've stated that my personal hunting range limit is 45 yards, and then ONLY under perfect conditions. For 'perfect', read not a breath of wind, rested rifle, range known to the inch and me on top form. In most of my hunting, 35 yards is the max, and even that will drop as the wind rises or becomes less predictable. To date, no one has accepted my invitation to show me how they reliably take rabbits, pigeons and corvids at 50, 60, 70 yards, and even beyond. The key term, here, is 'reliably'. I'm not talking about some irresponsible fluke you paced out, once. This is about repeatable accuracy, first time, under hunting conditions.

That offer stands and it's open to anyone, with rangefinders and any stance permitted. As stated, this is a genuine offer, with no 'side' or hidden agenda. If you can do it, I'd love to see how.

Regards.

Sorry Terry I deleted my post as i thought it was not right . but I should have left it .

yes its funny how the people that make these claims are not banging down your door to show you their Chris Kyle skills.

If they are that good then why are they not taking part and winning all the competitions ?

I remember seeing a post on here about a Youtube channel that pulls off long range kills on rabbits yet they are not that great at the shooting comps (the posters words ,not mine ).

[bobby822]

I never expected my post would upset so many people. Please don't get upset when someone says they are better.

All my good shots were made either on a sandbag or a bidpod off a bench.

My point in the original post was, modern PCPs are far more precise and accurate than the shooters.
With a good rest and in good condition (calm weather or indoor range, without any competition strss), they should be able to go through the same hole @35 yards.
Of course the correct pellet has to be found to achieve that.

As to why I'm not doing competition is becuse 1. They dont' allow me to shoot off a sandbag on a bench. 2. I don't think shooting is a proper career (don't get me wrong, shooting is perfect hobby). How many years can you shoot in competitions? You probably will retire in the mid-thirties. What do you do after that? Getting upset like some other do here when someone says they can do better groups?

I love shooting as much as most of your guys out there but I still will laugh when someone says it's a good gun cos they can do 5p group at 30 yards.

[Hsing-ee]

I never expected my post would upset so many people. Please don't get upset when someone says they are better.

As to why I'm not doing competition is becuse 1. They dont' allow me to shoot off a sandbag on a bench. 2. I don't think shooting is a proper career (don't get me wrong, shooting is perfect hobby). How many years can you shoot in competitions? You probably will retire in the mid-thirties. What do you do after that? Getting upset like some other do here when someone says they can do better groups?

I love shooting as much as most of your guys out there but I still will laugh when someone says it's a good gun cos they can do 5p group at 30 yards.

You don't think shooting is a proper 'career'? No-one shoots competitive air-rifle 'as a career'. What crazy world do you live in that you think that people shoot FT and HFT as a profession, like soccer players? Although if they did, then they would all have to retire when you entered the field.

Terry Doe started a career in journalism and publishing out of competition shooting, and others got careers in engineering out of it e.g. the Welhams, or in sales, but no-one does it as a career. You seem to be ill-informed on multiple facets of the sport.

You seen to stand somewhere between Donald Trump and Walther Mitty on the fanciful nonsense scale and this will remain the case unless you take up Terry Doe's offer to allow you to display your supernatural skills with the air-rifle.

You aren't confusing feet with yards are you?

Definition of a Walt "an ordinary often ineffectual person who indulges in fantastic daydreams of personal triumphs".

[Terry D]

I never expected my post would upset so many people. Please don't get upset when someone says they are better.

Bobby, please take this in a constructive way, because I suspect something is being lost in translation, here.

May I ask if English is your first language? Again, I'm not being sarcastic, it's a genuine question.

Regards.