let's talk about accuracy

[Marc.RG1]

I never expected my post would upset so many people. Please don't get upset when someone says they are better.

All my good shots were made either on a sandbag or a bidpod off a bench.

My point in the original post was, modern PCPs are far more precise and accurate than the shooters.
With a good rest and in good condition (calm weather or indoor range, without any competition strss), they should be able to go through the same hole @35 yards.
Of course the correct pellet has to be found to achieve that.

As to why I'm not doing competition is becuse 1. They dont' allow me to shoot off a sandbag on a bench. 2. I don't think shooting is a proper career (don't get me wrong, shooting is perfect hobby). How many years can you shoot in competitions? You probably will retire in the mid-thirties. What do you do after that? Getting upset like some other do here when someone says they can do better groups?

I love shooting as much as most of your guys out there but I still will laugh when someone says it's a good gun cos they can do 5p group at 30 yards.

Yeah I nearly just delete my reply too because normally I would not bite lol.. I agree not only will Bobby's post rub new shooter up the wrong way but a lot of older ones too.

But What cracks me up is when people think they are an amazing shot, then tell you they are shooting with the of the top of the range pcp rifles rested, here's another tip to improve your! Shooting skills clamp the rifle down and tie string to the trigger, then your get pellet on pellet every shot a, awesome shooting skills..

Now please guys, this is not a knock on pcp rifle shooters who shoot rested, just the people that think they are better then anyone else when really, it's the gun that's better then them.

shoot a real gun and then when your groups open up dramatically tell me what's wrong with the gun or the shooting skills or who's shooting it, Yes I shoot RS I shoot all types of guns, RS for target shooting, Airguns and airsoft for more relaxed fun target and plinking, and a bit of clay shooting too, I don't shoot pcp rifles, Not because I think there's anything wrong with them for their uses, but I myself though find them a bit boring as I don't shoot HFT or hunt, but I would not criticise something for the sake of it who use or love them.

But to Say the normal and quiet respectable 5p grouping at 25-50 yards is not good accuracy, with a springer or pcp rifle, your talking out of your behind..

ATB Marc

[MrGrumpy]

I guess time will tell, but I am genuinely always willing to learn from those who can do what I can't.

On a broader level, I've made similar invitations to those who claim to hunt at extreme ranges with sub-12 rifles. I've also had strong criticism, along the lines of, 'just because you can't do it, it doesn't mean I can't', when I've stated that my personal hunting range limit is 45 yards, and then ONLY under perfect conditions. For 'perfect', read not a breath of wind, rested rifle, range known to the inch and me on top form. In most of my hunting, 35 yards is the max, and even that will drop as the wind rises or becomes less predictable. To date, no one has accepted my invitation to show me how they reliably take rabbits, pigeons and corvids at 50, 60, 70 yards, and even beyond. The key term, here, is 'reliably'. I'm not talking about some irresponsible fluke you paced out, once. This is about repeatable accuracy, first time, under hunting conditions.

That offer stands and it's open to anyone, with rangefinders and any stance permitted. As stated, this is a genuine offer, with no 'side' or hidden agenda. If you can do it, I'd love to see how.

Regards.

Hey Terry Im pretty sure you know one of my good mates who comes out hunting with me now and again
You would be more than welcome to come for a hunt maybe when our mate is over
I shoot long range sub 12 and it all ties in with what you have stated
Open invite

[Terry D]

Hey Terry Im pretty sure you know one of my good mates who comes out hunting with me now and again
You would be more than welcome to come for a hunt maybe when our mate is over
I shoot long range sub 12 and it all ties in with what you have stated
Open invite

Thanks for the invitation, Mr G, although I don't quite understand your statement. Are you saying you can achieve hunting standard accuracy at extreme range, under hunting conditions? Do help a confused fellow.

[MrGrumpy]

Thanks for the invitation, Mr G, although I don't quite understand your statement. Are you saying you can achieve hunting standard accuracy at extreme range, under hunting conditions? Do help a confused fellow.

Of a fashion I have many places i shoot from a static position on my permission for shots up to 50 yards I would be prone of a bipod in perfect conditions . Several factors come into shooting at this range apart from weather i have stuck with the same two hunting rifles for over 5 years so i know them inside out . My rifle for long range is a tuned Air ranger with a bushnell elite 4.5/30x50 on adjustable mounts shooting AADiablos a set up that works perfectly , I dont shoot beyond 50 except for a bit of fun knocking 12 bore case over to about 65 yards
I use a rangefinder and have all my mil dots mapped out on my flip up lense cover . I accredit the accuracy more to the equipment than to myself as if im shooting freehand i wont shoot past 35 yards , hope that is an informative explanation as i sip my Horlicks before bed

[ballisticboy]

I guess time will tell, but I am genuinely always willing to learn from those who can do what I can't.

On a broader level, I've made similar invitations to those who claim to hunt at extreme ranges with sub-12 rifles. I've also had strong criticism, along the lines of, 'just because you can't do it, it doesn't mean I can't', when I've stated that my personal hunting range limit is 45 yards, and then ONLY under perfect conditions. For 'perfect', read not a breath of wind, rested rifle, range known to the inch and me on top form. In most of my hunting, 35 yards is the max, and even that will drop as the wind rises or becomes less predictable. To date, no one has accepted my invitation to show me how they reliably take rabbits, pigeons and corvids at 50, 60, 70 yards, and even beyond. The key term, here, is 'reliably'. I'm not talking about some irresponsible fluke you paced out, once. This is about repeatable accuracy, first time, under hunting conditions.

That offer stands and it's open to anyone, with rangefinders and any stance permitted. As stated, this is a genuine offer, with no 'side' or hidden agenda. If you can do it, I'd love to see how.

Regards.

Terry, in my many years, I have come across all kinds of claims for first round accuracy with all kinds of guns including tank and artillery guns. Funny how, as soon as we put them under proper carefully controlled test conditions, there is always some excuse as to why it cannot be done on that day.
As for group sizes the measured dispersion we achieve under controlled test conditions is always apparently bigger than can be seen regularly in the field. I have often wondered why we bother to try to control everything and only test under ideal conditions when apparently a bloke guessing in a gale can do better according to some.

[angrybear]

Nowadays on the forums or in those 'expert' gun reviews, when people brag the accuracy of their rifles, they often say something like '5p group at 30 yeards, 50p group at 50 yards' or 'half inch @35 yard' or something along that line.

For my eyes, those claims make me laugh and I seriously not recommend to buy any of those things as those rifles should be sent back to the factory because they are, effectively, defective at best or show the person behind the trigger incompetent.

During the past 12 years as air gun hobbist, all of my past and current 4 rilfes, an AA410, a logun S16 Evo, an HW100 and an FX Verminater all did much better when paired with a Leapers 4-16*56 scope.
It's a norm to have one pellet hole at 35 yeards. Before someone jumped in to say that's not possible, let me emphasis that whenever I get a new gun I alway take time to fine the best pellet for that particular gun. It's like marriage, there are million of million women on this planet but not every one suits you. Same goes to air rifles and pellets.

The most accurate rifle, to everybody's surprise, to mine as well, is the humble Logun S16Evo. This gun was branded by Tony @ Sand Well Field Sport as totally rubbish and donkey's rilfe despite he sold the gun to me only a few weeks earlier.

I used to shoot it at the Birmingham indoor range at Hockley (are they stll in business?). Most club memeber there have bigger louder real guns. When the little toy gun came out of the bag, noboday paid attention.
But when it started to hit constantly the tiny metal wire of the cloth hanger someone put out at the end of the 50 yard range to hang their paper target, curiosty started to rise and everyone started to admire how far the air guns had envolved from the springers.

the HW100 is another remarkably precision tool, which loves Logun Penetrator. When I acquired this gun I left Birmingham already and had no chance to shoot at metal cloth hander any more. I took it with a few friends on a hunting trip at luckyard farm at Somerset. Friends put out a group of different size spinner at 30, 50 and 70 yards. This gun had no trouble what's so ever hit the tiniest farest spinner.

Later I got a FX Verminator, in the begining it was like shit with AA Field and most of the pellet I could get hold of. I had some much trouble to have a tight group I almost gave up until one day I found some pellets someone left on the bench @ peter's farm.
I tried it and the gun instantly started to amaze me. Later I found out the pellets were Webly AccuPell. Once again I could achive same group as my Logon did. I used it for a good months for both targeting and hunting. Although they were excellent for paper punching but there were far many rabbits running away after being shot in the brain than I would tolerate. After talking to someone in the farm I learned it might due to the pellet light weight and he recommended Bislay Magnum. I bought one box and before the first mag was consumped, I know I found another pellet this Verminator loves. having heavy weight pellets the gun had to have a little bit more hold over but once the scope was re-zeored, amzing things happened. I no longer had any runner any more, not for rabbit at least. Occuasonly piegons could fly away but not a single rabbit ran away.

Now share your story about accuracy and let me know if you think 5p grouping at 30 yards is laugh stock or not?

OK, how do you shoot ? bag rested, off a bipod, bench rest support or free hand ?
How many shots are your one pellet holes and what sort of time frame for these (frankly barely believable) exploits ?

My Rapid .25 happily shoots ragged single holes 12-15mm at it's 42yd zero, by which I mean (for zeroing) supported on a front bag or bipod,
at my normal shooting speed taking a minute to a minute & half for the mag of 12 shots, 1-2 breaths between shots.

[Hsing-ee]

Nowadays on the forums or in those 'expert' gun reviews, when people brag the accuracy of their rifles, they often say something like '5p group at 30 yeards, 50p group at 50 yards' or 'half inch @35 yard' or something along that line.

For my eyes, those claims make me laugh and I seriously not recommend to buy any of those things as those rifles should be sent back to the factory because they are, effectively, defective at best or show the person behind the trigger incompetent. Most club memeber there have bigger louder real guns. When the little toy gun came out of the bag, noboday paid attention.
But when it started to hit constantly the tiny metal wire of the cloth hanger someone put out at the end of the 50 yard range to hang their paper target, curiosty started to rise and everyone started to admire how far the air guns had envolved from the springers.

the HW100 is another remarkably precision tool, which loves Logun Penetrator.

Now share your story about accuracy and let me know if you think 5p grouping at 30 yards is laugh stock or not?

Bigger. Louder. Real. Nonsense.

I think the only thing you are hitting consistently is the ANNOYING TROLL button. The grammatical mistakes and spelling mistakes are even the same as those that the political trolls use.

No-one with any claim to being a rifleman will believe your stories of groups with zero dispersion, partly through experience and partly because if the bench-rest brigade cannot achieve them, then some geezer with a Weihrauch HW100 and an arrogant attitude is not going to be able to.

You have succeeded in your mission, which presumably was to get everyone worked up at your 'Baron Munchausen's Narrative of Marvellous Accuracy and Marksmanship'. Congratulations.

[MikeHW45]

Bigger. Louder. Real. Nonsense.

I think the only thing you are hitting consistently is the ANNOYING TROLL button. The grammatical mistakes and spelling mistakes are even the same as those that the political trolls use.

No-one with any claim to being a rifleman will believe your stories of groups with zero dispersion, partly through experience and partly because if the bench-rest brigade cannot achieve them, then some geezer with a Weihrauch HW100 and an arrogant attitude is not going to be able to.

You have succeeded in your mission, which presumably was to get everyone worked up at your 'Baron Munchausen's Narrative of Marvellous Accuracy and Marksmanship'. Congratulations.

I feel this may be of use to the amazing marksman we have in our midst