The start of a 'collection'...

[Hellequin]

Having just trebled the amount of rifles I have this week (not difficult as I only had one previously!) I've been wondering, when does a collection become 'A COLLECTION'...? I'm not sure I'm there yet but, having had a variety of airguns over the years (spring & pcp) followed by mainly firearms for the past ten years, I think I've been bitten again by the 'older, spring powered air rifle' bug. By 'older' I mean mid-late 70's into 80's rifles

I've had a very tidy little BSA Supersport Carbine (.22) for some time. I did a thread on it when I got it as it came to me via family & initially I wasn't sure which model it was until I got hands on. It's a Brum model from 1996, completely original and almost unmarked due to the fact my dad-in-law bought it brand new, fired 6 (yes SIX!) pellets then stored it until it came to me in 2014.
It is currently in bits in the garage as to be honest it was a bit twangy and was running 11.9fpe so too hot for my liking. I'm replacing the spring with another BSA item, new breach & piston seals and it's now all de-burred and the relevant bits polished. I have a Tinbum tophat kit for it but will likely keep the original guide as it's a lovely fit in the new spring, and the only thing I'm waiting for now is some PTFE sheet to make a sleeve. I'm looking forward to seeing if I manage to tame the twang and make it a little smoother!

The new arrivals are a tidy Feinwerkbau Sport 127 and, just today, an interesting little ASI Sniper (.177) which I've picked up almost for pennies...

The FWB is a Mk2 (dated around 1983/4 going by the serial number) and shoots nicely, although I do want to fettle the trigger as it seems to have 'lost' its 2-stage feel and is a bit mushy. The stock is generally in very good nick as is the blueing, which hasn't faded much and just has the odd minor mark here and there; not bad for a 35-ish year old rifle! Open sights are present & correct although I'd like to put a decent (Jap) period scope on it at some point. For now I have a nice little Bushmaster 4x32 (gloss) which I might use as a stop-gap.

I've always liked the FWB Sport and so this, like the Supersport (but for different reasons) will be a 'keeper' which may well be treated to a full re-blue & stock refurbish in the future.

The ASI, needless to say, cost me a LOT less than the FWB! It is marked on the breech block 'Mod Expo' and still has the 'ASI Sniper' sticker on the action with gold lettering and words 'High Power' & 'Micro Accuracy' above and below the 'ASI Sniper' lettering. Whether it has either high power or micro accuracy remains to be seen but I won't hold my breath for either!

That said, it's clearly been looked after over the years as the action is in good order. The blueing has faded quite a bit on the barrel but there's not a spot of rust or pitting anywhere. The stock is good too, let down only by a large-ish scratch on the cheek-piece. All screws seem good and again, open sights are present although it's missing the foresight hood.

I've managed to put a few pellets through it and it is surprisingly smooth! The cocking action is near silent & very smooth, breech lock up is solid with a good 'click' and there's very little twang on firing. In the shoulder it 'feels' like it's putting out maybe around 5fpe but I've yet to chrono it so will see, as reviews suggest a properly functioning .177 Sniper can make around 8-9fpe. Either way it's perfect for what I wanted; a cheap 'different' back garden plinker.
The bonus with this ASI is that it also came with a box of spares including 4 main springs (at least one is knackered) some breech seals, a spare rear sight and a piston seal assembly. I know that Chambers stock some spares, so I will see if anything's needed when I strip it down but if it all looks good I'll leave it at a clean & re-lube, with maybe a PTFE sleeve made up.


So, that's me sorted for now and turning into a collector geek; three 'older' springers in the rack but I already have a couple in mind to be next on the shopping list.

I've a feeling it's going to prove addictive...

[Tony.T]

Hi BB, hope you're well?
I've been getting into old 10m target pistols and found a nice Titan FT rifle (PCP) One of my favourites is an old HW77 which I bought as a basket case off here some time ago. I refinished the stock, got RichardH to reblue it (great job btw). I fitted a Bonnie and Clyde tuning kit and last week I got hold of the correct factory open sights for it. Fabulous. Will be a keeper for sure!

[Hellequin]

Hi BB, hope you're well?
I've been getting into old 10m target pistols and found a nice Titan FT rifle (PCP) One of my favourites is an old HW77 which I bought as a basket case off here some time ago. I refinished the stock, got RichardH to reblue it (great job btw). I fitted a Bonnie and Clyde tuning kit and last week I got hold of the correct factory open sights for it. Fabulous. Will be a keeper for sure!

All good cheers Tony!

I have to confess I've owned two 77k's before (both .177) but was daft enough to sell them both, even though it's in my top 3 of favourite spring powered rifles. There's just something about them for me, although I'm not keen on the stock redesign on the new one!

An older 77k will definitely be 'on ze list' for my collection though!

[Tony.T]

Has to be done!!- Older the better!

[andrewM]

An interesting thread, Barnsleybob. It seems you are going through the process I have recently undergone in that you are beginning a collection. This is rather dangerous for it tends to develop a momentum of its own, which can be costly in both time and expense.

The discovery of this site spurred me on, as did the many helpful and encouraging comments and advice, which deepened my interest further and my knowledge and caused me to purchase rifles I would not have previously considered or of which existence I had not earlier known.

Like you, I have recently bought an FWB 127 - surely a 'must have' for every collector and an icon in terms of 70s and 80s rifles. Albeit now three months old, I have still properly to test it with various pellets. Unfortunately, it does not have its open sights although it is in very good condition.

As a result of the enthusiasm generated here, I have also acquired a Webley Omega and a Longbow - the latter in mint condition. The former is impressive but pin-point accuracy comes with the latter, using an old tin of H&N Pointed - which I bought nearly 40 years ago. I have almost run out of these, which are producing 1/3rd inch groups at 25yds. I hope these pellets are still in production.

My Webley Mk3, bought last year for 'old time's sake', is not the most accurate and powerful but it is an icon in air rifles and is magnificently manufactured, with a personality, albeit somewhat temperamental.

My BSA Standard is producing 11.3ft/lbs, is accurate and nearly 100 years old. What a joy it is to use it.

I am now wondering whether to find an Anchutz 335 - only because I like what I have read here. On the other hand, I am beginning to feel I should digest what I already have and take time to test these at various ranges, with various pellets. There is, in my view, little point having these rifles without using them.

I have also managed to avoid collecting a WH. Everyone seems to have these, so I have sought out other capable rifles albeit without the 77's reputation.

I can only reflect that I have, via this site, rediscovered an old hobby and enjoyed some interesting discussions here, some with those who have very serious collections, in triple figures.

[Hellequin]

Thanks Andrew, I've certainly learned over the years that air rifles (and even more so firearms) can be an expensive and sometimes all consuming hobby. I think that's partly why I'm being drawn back towards the relative simplicity of spring power, although you're right that this can also become expensive where collecting is concerned.

I have to say though that I was every bit as excited to get the little ASI Sniper as I was the much 'posher' FWB this week. It may not be a classic but I just know it'll make me smile when I use it and you make a great point about getting to know & use your rifles before increasing your collection; I definitely think air rifles are there to be used not just admired. You have some real classics already (an Omega is on my list!) and that BSA sounds pretty awesome for a near 100yr old air rifle!

It'd be good to hear how you get on with the pellet testing if you get chance to do some, especially with your FWB...

All the best

[rovercoupe]

A collection is a load of "stuff" to be a collector you must have bought a gun then sold it then at a later date regretted it and bought another exact same gun normally for a large amount more that the original one!

Repeat, now you are a collector.

[WILBA]

Having just trebled the amount of rifles I have this week (not difficult as I only had one previously!) I've been wondering, when does a collection become 'A COLLECTION'...? I'm not sure I'm there yet but, having had a variety of airguns over the years (spring & pcp) followed by mainly firearms for the past ten years, I think I've been bitten again by the 'older, spring powered air rifle' bug. By 'older' I mean mid-late 70's into 80's rifles

I've had a very tidy little BSA Supersport Carbine (.22) for some time. I did a thread on it when I got it as it came to me via family & initially I wasn't sure which model it was until I got hands on. It's a Brum model from 1996, completely original and almost unmarked due to the fact my dad-in-law bought it brand new, fired 6 (yes SIX!) pellets then stored it until it came to me in 2014.
It is currently in bits in the garage as to be honest it was a bit twangy and was running 11.9fpe so too hot for my liking. I'm replacing the spring with another BSA item, new breach & piston seals and it's now all de-burred and the relevant bits polished. I have a Tinbum tophat kit for it but will likely keep the original guide as it's a lovely fit in the new spring, and the only thing I'm waiting for now is some PTFE sheet to make a sleeve. I'm looking forward to seeing if I manage to tame the twang and make it a little smoother!

The new arrivals are a tidy Feinwerkbau Sport 127 and, just today, an interesting little ASI Sniper (.177) which I've picked up almost for pennies...

The FWB is a Mk2 (dated around 1983/4 going by the serial number) and shoots nicely, although I do want to fettle the trigger as it seems to have 'lost' its 2-stage feel and is a bit mushy. The stock is generally in very good nick as is the blueing, which hasn't faded much and just has the odd minor mark here and there; not bad for a 35-ish year old rifle! Open sights are present & correct although I'd like to put a decent (Jap) period scope on it at some point. For now I have a nice little Bushmaster 4x32 (gloss) which I might use as a stop-gap.

I've always liked the FWB Sport and so this, like the Supersport (but for different reasons) will be a 'keeper' which may well be treated to a full re-blue & stock refurbish in the future.

The ASI, needless to say, cost me a LOT less than the FWB! It is marked on the breech block 'Mod Expo' and still has the 'ASI Sniper' sticker on the action with gold lettering and words 'High Power' & 'Micro Accuracy' above and below the 'ASI Sniper' lettering. Whether it has either high power or micro accuracy remains to be seen but I won't hold my breath for either!

That said, it's clearly been looked after over the years as the action is in good order. The blueing has faded quite a bit on the barrel but there's not a spot of rust or pitting anywhere. The stock is good too, let down only by a large-ish scratch on the cheek-piece. All screws seem good and again, open sights are present although it's missing the foresight hood.

I've managed to put a few pellets through it and it is surprisingly smooth! The cocking action is near silent & very smooth, breech lock up is solid with a good 'click' and there's very little twang on firing. In the shoulder it 'feels' like it's putting out maybe around 5fpe but I've yet to chrono it so will see, as reviews suggest a properly functioning .177 Sniper can make around 8-9fpe. Either way it's perfect for what I wanted; a cheap 'different' back garden plinker.
The bonus with this ASI is that it also came with a box of spares including 4 main springs (at least one is knackered) some breech seals, a spare rear sight and a piston seal assembly. I know that Chambers stock some spares, so I will see if anything's needed when I strip it down but if it all looks good I'll leave it at a clean & re-lube, with maybe a PTFE sleeve made up.


So, that's me sorted for now and turning into a collector geek; three 'older' springers in the rack but I already have a couple in mind to be next on the shopping list.

I've a feeling it's going to prove addictive...

Asi sniper. That takes me back. My friend as a young teen had one and i loved shooting that gun. A collection can be several or hundreds like some guys on here have. Its not about how many so stop worrying on that fact. Its whats precious to you and in my case brings back memories of guns i had or lusted after in my youth. I have a modest collection of 18. But am selling a few of the newer ones to fund my thirst for more again of the older rifles. Just enjoy the experience and memories they bring when you hold or use them. No amount of money can give you the same satisfaction i find myself anyway. Regards. Chris

[WILBA]

All good cheers Tony!

I have to confess I've owned two 77k's before (both .177) but was daft enough to sell them both, even though it's in my top 3 of favourite spring powered rifles. There's just something about them for me, although I'm not keen on the stock redesign on the new one!

An older 77k will definitely be 'on ze list' for my collection though!

I have sold several 77's over the years but only deeply regret selling my mk1 version. We all have silly moments and that was mine.

[Paul SE]

An interesting thread, Barnsleybob. It seems you are going through the process I have recently undergone in that you are beginning a collection. This is rather dangerous for it tends to develop a momentum of its own, which can be costly in both time and expense.

My Webley Mk3, bought last year for 'old time's sake', is not the most accurate and powerful but it is an icon in air rifles and is magnificently manufactured, with a personality, albeit somewhat temperamental.

I have also managed to avoid collecting a WH. Everyone seems to have these, so I have sought out other capable rifles albeit without the 77's reputation.

Interesting indeed chaps.

I had a .22 Webley Mk3 that I purchased from a chap at work many years ago for £30. At that time, I didn't deem it 'collectable' as such, and used it to great effect on the many plinking targets up the garden. With regret, it got sold on some years ago to another collector.
Concurring somewhat with Andrew, I preferred to use the mk3 than the .22 BSA Airsporter I also owned at the time, and found the Mk3 to be well built and quite consistent in performance.

As far as other airguns in my collection, I have a rather splendid Mk1 .22 BSA Scorpion pistol, complete in the original box and all accessories. It's the kind of example that one can display and it reminds me of seeing such guns on display in shop windows years ago.
This one will definitely not be sold !!

As far as Weihrauchs are concerned, I have 3 HW pistols that I use regularly; two of them are boxed, as supplied from new, and for me any gun which is supplied with all relevant accessories is far more collectable.

I also have a Mk1 .22 Webley Vulcan in superb condition, but unfortunately no box.

What next?
A Weihrauch .22 HW35E with 22" barrel, as was available back in the '80's is on my list, complete with period 'scope....

[andrewM]

A collection is a load of "stuff" to be a collector you must have bought a gun then sold it then at a later date regretted it and bought another exact same gun normally for a large amount more that the original one!

Repeat, now you are a collector.

Rovercoupe, I fear you are spot on! I have now bought a Webley Mk3 and an FWB127, both of which I had as a teenager but in those days one tended to trade them in for the next best available, as it came along. Later, one regretted selling them.

Barnsleybob, I will try to remember to let you know what pellets my FWB prefers, when I find a moment and perhaps you could do likewise. Sometimes, a more accurate pellet is only possible with a loss of power so one really seeks the best combination. The Omega loves H&N Pointed (same as my Longbow) but detests, surprisingly, S.domes (which demonstrates there are always exceptions). I have three tins of old Eley Wasps, which I used as a benchmark and these do very well in the Omega, as you would expect, given it is the old .22 barrel whereas the Longbow is, I believe, the 5.5mm barrel (mine was Birmingham produced - I would not have bought it had it been Turkish). I am rather sparing with the Wasps because it is impossible to find them now. I only hope H&N Pointed are still being manufactured, given mine are nearly 40 years old and I only have about 50 remaining. I recommend you find an Omega - they are well built, robust and the trigger is more than acceptable even although the purists complain of it. Another Webley that seems to be quite popular here, is the old Vulcan although I do not know much about its handling or accuracy.

Paul SE, I think you are quite right about the Mk3 but so many were made that they are quite easy to find. In great condition, however, they are more rare and tend to go for nearly £300 although I have seen gunsmiths offering them for nearly £400 in some cases.

[Hellequin]

Some great replies on here gents, thank you. I can certainly relate to the 'rifles lusted after in my youth' sentiment as there are several which I used to look at when I was in my early teens and dream of owning, both in the shop window and the old mail order adverts in AG & AGW.

AndrewM; I will be doing some chrono testing with the FWB tomorrow and so far to test I have some RWS Superdome & Hobby, H&N FTT, and Falcon Accuracy plus. The accuracy testing will come later but I'll put an update on the thread... Oh and I did have a Vulcan, a nice little 'KS' model which was really handy (if twangy) and I really should've kept it as they don't come up often either.

Another 'must have' for me is the Diana 52 Carbine. There's a lovely one in sales at the mo which, had it been available last week I'd probably have bought ahead of the FWB 127 I now have. They always seem to come available at just the wrong time for me but I will have one at some point; it's an itch I really want to scratch!

[Hellequin]

Asi sniper. That takes me back. My friend as a young teen had one and i loved shooting that gun. A collection can be several or hundreds like some guys on here have. Its not about how many so stop worrying on that fact. Its whats precious to you and in my case brings back memories of guns i had or lusted after in my youth. I have a modest collection of 18. But am selling a few of the newer ones to fund my thirst for more again of the older rifles. Just enjoy the experience and memories they bring when you hold or use them. No amount of money can give you the same satisfaction i find myself anyway. Regards. Chris

Thanks Chris, it's certainly about enjoyment & nostalgia for me but I also want rifles I can use fairly regularly, so I doubt my collection will get too large. I had a mate with an ASI (don't remember which model it was) and another with a BSA Mercury so have great memories of using both as I wasn't allowed my own rifle until I was 15, although my uncle did buy me a GAT pistol (much to my mum's disgust) when I was 14!

As I said yesterday, I'm really chuffed with the ASI I picked up as it just feels like a rifle that'll make me smile when I shoot it. I'm going to build a proper little 'tin can alley' in the garden for it too

All the best

[Paul SE]

The Omega loves H&N Pointed (same as my Longbow) but detests, surprisingly, S.domes (which demonstrates there are always exceptions). I have three tins of old Eley Wasps, which I used as a benchmark and these do very well in the Omega, as you would expect, given it is the old .22 barrel whereas the Longbow is, I believe, the 5.5mm barrel (mine was Birmingham produced - I would not have bought it had it been Turkish). I am rather sparing with the Wasps because it is impossible to find them now. I only hope H&N Pointed are still being manufactured, given mine are nearly 40 years old and I only have about 50 remaining.

Andrew, our sponsor has H&N Pointed with smooth bodies for sale >>here<<

Also available are Diana Pointed pellets, which look to me to be the same, or very similar, here:

http://www.sportsmk.co.uk/cat/20201/...diana-pellets/

I've purchased some Diana Pointed pellets from the auction site, and the pellets look the same as H&N, and shoot consistently.

I had a .177 Mk2 Vulcan that shot H&N Pointed very well, but also quite predictively, shot Eley Wasp / BSA Pylarm accurately.

[Hellequin]

Ok, as I said earlier in the thread, here are the results from my short chrono test today. I should point out that pellet weights are as-per the stated weight on the tins. I know these are likely to be 'out' a bit so will do more in depth tests at a later date with properly weighed batches and with longer short strings too. The strings today were ten shots per pellet type.


FWB SPORT 127 (.22)

Falcon Accuracy Plus 13.43gr

Average FPS - 596.18fps
High - 599fps
Low - 591.4fps
Spread - 7.6fps
Average power - 10.58fpe

RWS Superdome 14.5gr

Average FPS - 561.32fps
High - 564.2fps
Low - 557.9fps
Spread - 6.3fps
Average Power - 10.15fpe

RWS Hobby 11.9gr

Average FPS - 636.6fps
High - 640.6fps
Low - 632.7fps
Spread 7.9fps
Average Power - 10.71fpe.

This rifle came to me last week and has recently had a standard service kit fitted by the previous owner. It is doing a little less FPE than claimed however I was very impressed by the spread/consistency on what is a 35 year old rifle. I've managed to adjust the trigger too, so I now have a proper 1st & 2nd stage and overall I'm VERY happy!



BSA Supersport Carbine (.22)

Falcon Accuracy Plus 13.43gr

Average FPS - 575.66fps
High - 579.6
Low - 573.7
Spread - 5.9fps
Average Power - 9.88fpe

RWS Superdome 14.5gr

Average FPS - 561.32fps
High - 564.2fps
Low - 559.6fps
Spread - 4.6fps
Average power - 10.15fpe

RWS Hobby 11.9gr

Average FPS - 616.79fps
High - 622.3fps
Low - 614.1fps
Spread - 8.2fps
Average power - 10.05fpe

This rifle has just been serviced by me. I have de-burred any parts that needed it, polished the piston, spring ends & spring guide and also the trigger sears. It is fitted with a brand new standard BSA spring (shorter than the one that came out) and also a Tinbum delrin tophat along with delrin slip washer & 1x delrin preload washer. I kept the BSA steel spring guide & used a BSA piston seal & HW breech seal. The only other thing it has is a PTFE sleeve made of .5mm PTFE sheet. I used a minimal amount of Moly grease when re-assembling.
Some may say the power is a little low (I'd agree with that for the Falcon Acc+) but given these are the first shots after re-assembly I'm very pleased with the consistency. I will run the rifle for a few hundred shots then check again, before deciding whether to add the second delrin preload washer.
The main positive for me aside from consistency is that the 'twang' has completely gone & the rifle is smooth to shoot, so I'm very happy with it.



A.S.I. Sniper (.177)

RWS Hobby 7gr

Average FPS - 386.96fps
High - 402.7fps
Low - 370.2fps
Spread - 32.5fps
Average power - 2.33fpe!

Now, as stated earlier in the thread, I only picked this rifle up a few days ago; I've done nothing to it and don't know its history, albeit cosmetically it appears to have been fairly well looked after.
Although I wasn't expecting stellar performance, 2.3fpe is way low (apparently they should do 7-9fpe in this calibre) so I will be stripping it in the near future. Again, as said earlier in the thread some 'spares' came with the rifle but because I don't know the history of them either (they don't look brand new) I will order new seals & spring from Chambers and see how it responds to a proper service & relube. If I can get a consistent 7-ish FPE from it I think I'll be happy, as I really only bought it for back yard plinking & a bit of nostalgia.



Overall I'm pretty happy with todays results, even though I know that proper pellet weighing/selection will give a more accurate result as and when I do it. The FWB is everything I could have hoped for in a 35 year old rifle and I'd happily use it (subject to accuracy testing) on paper or live quarry. The BSA Supersport Carbine is the first rifle I've fully serviced myself and, so far, I'm very happy with both the result and the enjoyment of doing the work. If I can get it shooting consistently between 10.5-11fpe it'll be about perfect, I think.

The A.S.I. obviously needs work but, as that Meatbread bloke once sang "Two outta three ain't bad..."

So that's it for now. My 'collection' has started and I envisage more rifles & more fettling to come over time, which can surely only be a good thing!

All the best.