Webley Mark II Service breech treatment anomalies?

[Leonardj]

I have recently come across a Webley Mark II Service rifle with a few anomalies at the breech portion of the barrel that I have not seen previously on any other Mark II rifles. The barrel is original to the gun, based on the matching serial numbers, and the gun is in fairly nice overall condition.

The most obvious oddity is a small step in the barrel diameter, about 3/32” long, just ahead of the undercut for the breech nut. This is the first time I have seen this small step on a Mark II rifle barrel. How common (or uncommon) is this?
Note as well that the intercepting sear has a radius at the rear. I know of only one other Mark II Service that has a similar intercepting sear. User modification, or aftermarket item with the maker's personal touch?



The next anomaly is the treatment of the breech face on this gun.
Picture “A” shows the usual treatment of the breech face, or at least the one that I am most accustomed to seeing. The breech face is undercut from the OD, and the ID, with a narrow ridge remaining to engage the sealing washer.



Picture “B” shows what appears to be an anomaly, in that there is no undercut from the ID, but rather, a largish chamfer into the bore, with a fairly broad ridge to engage the sealing washer.
Is it possible that this barrel missed a step in the machining process, and was overlooked by quality control inspection before being dispatched?

[Troubledshooter]

Hi Len,

Does the barrel have the raised section where it fits in the cocking linkage ?

I can't say I've noticed any with a step such as you've shown.

I have a couple of Service barrels that are numbered to a gun, with the calibre marked in the correct location in what appears to be original typeface, that are apparently not original Webley barrels.

I haven't looked closely at any interceptor sears, but will check and see if any of mine have a rounded trailing edge.

[Leonardj]

Hi David.

Yes, the barrel does have the raised section at the cocking linkage.
All other features appear correct except for those items noted in the OP.
The barrel does appear (to me at least) to be original to the gun.

Have you ever seen a breech face like that shown in Picture "B"?

[DAVALI]

Hi David,
My WEBLEY number 4431 also has a small turned section of about 1/16” long, the diameter is not the same as the breech locking diameter, this could have being a false overcut when machining also mine has the radius end to the intercepting sear, breech face as in picture “A”.

Dave.

[Troubledshooter]

I have just checked eight 'Service' barrels, including the supposedly non genuine two, and the breeches are all as illustration 'A'.
None of them have a step leading up to the breech.
I've checked four 'Service' rifles and all interceptor sears have a square trailing edge, as per the original drawing.
Below are the breech ends of three Service barrels, two of which are supposedly non Webley.

[Leonardj]

Thank you to David and Dave for your respective comments.

It seems that we now know of three incidences of the intercepting sear with a radius on the rear section - the two that I have seen, and the one belonging to Dave.
We also have a second barrel with the small undercut ahead of the breech nut groove.

Anyone else care to weigh in?

[frakor]

I have just checked six barres, including two replacement barrels by Knibbs, and 5 breeches are all as illustration 'A'.
BUT one of them is exactly as "B" ! this is #S6313 a third series MKII original barrel
None of them have a step leading up to the breech.
My 3 models all have the rounded sear, but my friends one has a square sear. (He bought it from J. Knibbs decades ago in a refinished state, so maybe a replacement?)

-------------------------
Frank

[Troubledshooter]

As a more interceptor sears with a rounded trailing edge appear, I wonder if a small batch of theses sears were produced with this feature.
Below is a copy of the original blueprint:

[Ragle Jnr]

Serial no1615 on barrel, stamped .22 caliber, barrel recess is cut square, faced as type A, rounded interceptor sear. The rounding allows a rolling movement as the barrel closes, and I noticed that when refitting the barrel there is a brief moment when the square edge makes fitting tricky, perhaps a previous owner relieved the recess for faster barrel changes? David.

[Leonardj]

I have just checked six barres, including two replacement barrels by Knibbs, and 5 breeches are all as illustration 'A'.
BUT one of them is exactly as "B" ! this is #S6313 a third series MKII original barrel
None of them have a step leading up to the breech.
My 3 models all have the rounded sear, but my friends one has a square sear. (He bought it from J. Knibbs decades ago in a refinished state, so maybe a replacement?)
-------------------------
Frank

Thank you Frank.

So we now know of two guns with the breech face as shown in picture "B".
I also find the serial number of your gun to be most interesting as well, because the serial number of the rifle that is the subject of this thread is S3313. What are the odds of that?
Perhaps we now have a serial number range for which to look for any more barrels with this breech face anomaly.

The intercepting sear with the radius at the rear may be a more common item than I thought it was.

[Leonardj]

As a more interceptor sears with a rounded trailing edge appear, I wonder if a small batch of theses sears were produced with this feature.

I am beginning to think the same.
With the number of occurrences now known, it is very unlikely that it was an isolated, end-user modification, as I had originally speculated.

[Leonardj]

Serial no1615 on barrel, stamped .22 caliber, barrel recess is cut square, faced as type A, rounded interceptor sear. The rounding allows a rolling movement as the barrel closes, and I noticed that when refitting the barrel there is a brief moment when the square edge makes fitting tricky, perhaps a previous owner relieved the recess for faster barrel changes? David.

Thank you for your response, David.

The barrel does not appear to my eye to have been modified, nor reblued, and DAVALI's post confirms a second occurrence of this anomaly on his Mk II.

[Garvin]

Len here are my two, original Webley .177 and .22 cal barrels.

PS intercepting sear is square.

[Leonardj]

Len here are my two, original Webley .177 and .22 cal barrels.

PS intercepting sear is square.

Thank you Danny.