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Thread: Starting from scratch...

  1. #1
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    Starting from scratch...

    I'm just about to purchase some kit to start reloading for my .223. I had good results with factory ammo .5 MOA) but availability is becoming a bit of a pain and I'm keen to get a bit more control in this area. I've got about £500 to spend on the set up (not including the consumables bullets, powder etc). What should I be putting my money into? Do I need a tumbler for case cleaning to start off with? There is such a myriad of stuff available I'm in a bit of a spin as what's essential to start and this is a lot of cash for me to outlay so I'm keen to get it right. Any tips would be appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Hi when you start to reload be aware its additive You will not go wrong if you get a lee anniversary kit and a couple of extra quick change bushings BUT do get a different powder scale like a Lyman or Rcbs also get a case length gauge for your calibre and a tube or two of case lube I use lee dies and find them ok for what I need but you will have to decide if you want neck only dies or full length dies ---I use full length that means I can use brass form others that they don't want or buy second hand brass it can be good also if you get a loading manual like a lyman you should get all you need for well under £250 or less

  3. #3
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    Lee classic press 4 hole - £139 / https://www.henrykrank.com/reloading...ret-press.html
    rcbs uniflow powder measure
    jewelry scales - £13 item 183024392262
    maplins ultra sound - £28 / https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/jpl-ultra...-cleaner-a04un
    digital calipers £10- item 202208450343


    dies to suit cals

    all you will need for any calibre..i used this set up 18years , with great sucess in various calibres

  4. #4
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    Got Lee classic press 4 hole myself very good can change caliber in 2 sec.

    If want good scale get RCBS 505

  5. #5
    Parabuteo is offline My Chrony has bought it a couple of times...
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    Yep. Dont use cheap electronic scales. I use a set called Gem Pro 250 by a company called my weigh. I only got them on recommendation as they were being used by BR shooters in the states, but I watch the tare setting like a hawk (although the actual fluctuations will not really affect the group much anyway with my discipline). I have some RCBS for standby.

    Make sure you get a decent set of electronic calipers as they will be your eyes and ears for fault finding, and keep records of your loads. If you get something seriously right, you want to stick with it right?

    I would suggest getting both FL and neck dies, or possibly FL and Lee Collet dies as the latter gives a very consistant neck with minimum faff. FL is worth looking at because even new brass will benefit from being FL sized and trimmed before use. I FL size all of my 5.56x45 brass as it goes through an AR15 quite rapidly and has to chamber properly.

    When you feel the need I would highly recommend the OAL gauges from Dave Bonwick at the shooting shed, and although I know they are expensive, check out a Forster classic case trimmer and 3in1 cutter head. I tried cheaper methods but went back to the 3in1 (although I have adjusted mine slightly to make the chamfer less agressive).

    I dont know what to recommend regarding case cleaning...well I do but again it aint cheap. IF you want very clean brass, pretty well all over, then stainless media wet tumbling is hard to beat. All this said it is not beyond most people to build their own STM tumbler, I will when mine finally dies.

    The most important thing initially is to be able to understand and operate the kit safely, then produce small volumes of consistant ammo. Shy away from kits as you will probably replace stuff as you go on. Some of the Lee kit is very good (I believe their classic press takes some beating) but some is crap. Their dies are OK, I use a mix of RCBS/FORSTER/LEE/REDDING/WILSON and have picked these up as I have gone along. Make sure you keep the cones of lee crimp dies and collet dies oiled or they will stick.

    Once you can do it without blowing anything up, then work out what best fits your shooting. The various powder and bullet websites are good for load data. I would suggest loading to SAAMI dimensions first before you try messing about with different COALs etc. Adjust your load first then mess with the seating depth if the results are not acceptable.

    Make your own case sizing lube from 1 part lanolin and 9 parts 99.9% IPA (Available on line, Amazon).

    Finally, make sure you have either a mentor, or have a good read and understand the terminology, internal ballistics (What goes on when things go bang before the bullet leaves the muzzle) and what the dangers/danger signs are. If in doubt ask.

    It sounds daunting but accidents are thankfully rare and most rifles will suffer some abuse, but dont forget it may be accumulative so if you dont like the look or feel of something, stop.

    If your primer is flat, holed, has black round it or has gone....stop (and check out the state of your bolt face).

    If your round is hard to chamber, dont chamber it. If it is hard to extract, it may be a sign. This is why FL sizing initially and correct trimming is important.

    If it goes pop or less of a bang than you expected, for gods sakes dont load another and fire it. Be lucky and it wont chamber, be unlucky and it will chamber behind another bullet and blow your rifle up.

    Dont get wrapped up in chronoing and micro groups. Results can sometimes be down to random harmonics and conditions. If it is good enough for now, go and shoot and tune later. Velocity is not everything, its handy but accuracy/precision wins.

    Keep your test targets for reference, write the load details on the target.

    Sorry, got carried away

    Enjoy it mate, its addictive and yes, you will shoot more
    I'm a maggot in another life you know

  6. #6
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    All of the above is good advice and recommendation and I can only tell you what I use:

    Good reloading manual(I have a few)
    single stage press(RCBS)
    dies(redding) neck,full length and bullet seater
    case trimmer(lee)
    case neck deburring tool(RCBS)
    0000 wire wool to clean neck and shoulder of case( helps to spot any splits)
    primer pocket cleaning tool(lee)
    digital micrometer(aldi) check its accuracy by gauging the diameter of a bullet
    primer hand press seater(lee)
    imperial sizing wax
    beam scales(RCBS 505)
    powder funnel(RCBS)
    powder trickler(redding)
    reloading tray( bit of wood with holes drilled to suit cases)

    Inspect all your cases before you start for any splits,grit or flaws. I find this is the minimum kit required to produce good,safe, accurate ammo with minimum fuss but of course you can spend what you like on what you want

    I weigh every load using the scales,a teaspoon and a small dish but I don't tend to load huge amounts at any one time otherwise a powder thrower would be a good investment.

    Be safe and enjoy.
    Last edited by sundog; 29-03-2018 at 09:35 AM. Reason: forgot reloading tray, oops

  7. #7
    Randy Bohannon's Avatar
    Randy Bohannon is offline “Junes1 is a whining bellend”
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    Good advice so far, I would only add that your budget is reasonable and so it pays in your case to buy a few quality items to begin with and add to it as experience and time allows.

    On that basis I would take as a starting point what actually needs to be done to reload a cartridge.

    The stages of reloading a case are the following:


    1. deprime case
    2. clean case (optional)
    3. resize case or case neck
    4. trim case
    5. reprime case
    6. charge case with powder
    7. seat bullet
    8. crimp bullet (optional)


    For example, I started with a Lee hand press and loaded many rounds with it.

    I broke it trying to FL size 2006 brass and so got a RCBS rockchucker which will probably be passed onto my grandchildren one day. I did buy another Lee hand press but for different reasons ( loading on the range) but had I bought the RCBS in the first place it would have been a case of buy once cry once.

    My advice is therefore to first buy a good single stage, cast press such as the Lee classic cast for around £150 to the RCBS rockchucker supreme at around £200 with the Hornady and Lyman offerings falling in between in terms of cost. I personally prefer RCBS but there is no real difference in quality between these brands, see what your local gun shop has or find the best offer on line. These presses all allow for depriming as well as repriming on the press using little attachments and whilst this method is a little slower than a dedicated hand priming unit works very well and is perfectly adequate for the beginner; With a £15 Lee universal decapping die and £5 calibre specific shell holder bought at the same time the press therefore takes care of 1. (and 5.)

    That leaves around £280-330 left of your budget and the empty cartridge case has been deprimed and is ready for sizing.

    A word on cleaning, it is not necessary to get the inside and out of your case spotless but for the sake of your reloading dies cleaning the outside of the case will prevent scratches on the precision surface in the die and cleaning the primer pockets will give you consistency in primer seating depth. This can be done without fancy equipment, a bit of 0000 wire wool on the outside of the case and gentle scrape with a small screwdriver in the primer pocket will do the job; save the money here until you have the more important bits in my opinion.

    To do this you need a set of dies, at a minimum a Full Length sizing die and a bullet seating die. It is nice to have a neck sizing die and a crimping die also but not to get started and these can be added on later when funds and experience allow.

    Dies sets range from £40 for Lee 3 die sets to over £200 for Forster competition sets but luckily the differences are not very relevant for the beginner and the Lee deluxe set is the one to go for in your shoes. You also need some case lube to stop the cases getting stuck in the dies and I would recommend Imperial die case sizing wax as the best of the best at £5 for a small tin which will last for years.

    This brings the budget to £235-285 and you have have a deprimed and sized case for your troubles.

    You need to trim your cases now, particularity if you have been following everyone's advice and FL sizing. Trimming promotes consistency and not trimming can result in severe overpressure problems.

    The cheapest and easiest way to trim cases is with the Lee trimming kits you use an electric screwdriver for being the "Lee Precision Case Trimmer Cutter & Lock Stud" and the calibre specific "Case Length Gauge & Shell Holder" for your .223 at around £15 total.

    The good thing about these items are they are cheap, consistent and you don't need to measure the case every time as it trims them all to the same length.

    Clean the lube off the case and from he inside of the neck with kitchen towels, cotton buds and meths and reprime using the press.

    Your budget is now £220-260 and you have a case that is the equivalent of a new, unfired case ready for charging, seating a bullet on and firing.

    As everyone has said, you need good, repeatable scales to charge your cases. I recommend some dampened balance beam scales such as the RCBS 5xx series, with the 505 being about the best for the money. Avoid the Lee scales as being undampened they take ages to settle. These will set you back around £100 and you have a case ready for seating the bullet and a budget of £120-£160 left. Parabueto explained why avoiding cheap electronic scales is a good idea.

    The dies and press do the work of seating the bullet but you will need a a decent set of vernier calipers to measure the overall length of the rounds you are producing and to keep that measurement the same between reloading sessions. These are can be had from about £25 quid up and I would get one that reads in Imperial units if dedicated to reloading.

    At this stage and with around a hundred quid left of your budget you have produced a round of ammunition that is much more consistent than factory ammunition and done it with quality kit that you will never need to sell to "upgrade", you simply add more kit to it as funds and experience allow.
    "An infinite number of monkeys banging away at type writers for an infinite period of time will eventually reproduce Hamlet" Thanks to discussion forums we now know this to be untrue.

  8. #8
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    Important

    Pay no attention to the COL figures in the reloading books...make up ypur own dummy rounds using whatever bullets you have and ensure they will chamber in your rifle...I well remember a chap turning up to the range with a £4000 .308 rifle and 100 rounds carefully handloaded...none would chamber....he had simply used the COL shown in his reloading book...an awful lot of knocking out required...incidentally get a decent kinetic hammer.

    amc577

  9. #9
    Randy Bohannon's Avatar
    Randy Bohannon is offline “Junes1 is a whining bellend”
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    Quote Originally Posted by amc577 View Post
    Pay no attention to the COL figures in the reloading books...make up ypur own dummy rounds using whatever bullets you have and ensure they will chamber in your rifle...I well remember a chap turning up to the range with a £4000 .308 rifle and 100 rounds carefully handloaded...none would chamber....he had simply used the COL shown in his reloading book...an awful lot of knocking out required...incidentally get a decent kinetic hammer.

    amc577
    That chap was badly advised, if the COAL length was the reason the rounds refused to chamber he could have just put them back in the seating die and seated the bullets a bit deeper without needing to pull the rounds.
    "An infinite number of monkeys banging away at type writers for an infinite period of time will eventually reproduce Hamlet" Thanks to discussion forums we now know this to be untrue.

  10. #10
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    Surely COAL is to standard spec and any rifle chambered for that particular cartridge should be able to be loaded with a cartridge to that spec. It sounds like that rifle was custom made and chambered to be shot with a specific bullet in which case the chap should have been given a 'dummy' chamber to check that his coal was ok or indeed checked in the rifles chamber. He could also have reseated the bullets a bit deeper rather than pull them.

    My one fingered typing style is so slow Mr Bohannon replied,had dinner,a large cigar and brandy and forty winks before I posted this
    Last edited by sundog; 29-03-2018 at 01:23 PM. Reason: too slow

  11. #11
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    Thanks for all the info guys, very much appreciated.
    I've just placed my order with Sportsman guncenter as they had some great deals on.
    RCBS Rockchuker supreme master kit, RCBS X - full length dies, and shell holder.
    Let's hope it really is "buy once, cry once" eh!

  12. #12
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    If you're getting on a bit and the old mincers are not what they used to be its a good idea to use some sort of magnifying device for the scales. This can be anything from a shaving mirror on a stand and the scales facing away from you, a camera on a smartphone or a small webcam and a laptop. I use the webcam as is gets rid of any parallax.
    Big Ears AKA BE.

  13. #13
    Randy Bohannon's Avatar
    Randy Bohannon is offline “Junes1 is a whining bellend”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris J View Post
    Thanks for all the info guys, very much appreciated.
    I've just placed my order with Sportsman guncenter as they had some great deals on.
    RCBS Rockchuker supreme master kit, RCBS X - full length dies, and shell holder.
    Let's hope it really is "buy once, cry once" eh!
    Good choice, you won't be unhappy.

    Don't forget to buy a case trimmer and calipers.
    "An infinite number of monkeys banging away at type writers for an infinite period of time will eventually reproduce Hamlet" Thanks to discussion forums we now know this to be untrue.

  14. #14
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    Col

    The chap with the unuseable 100 rounds had crimped them....h and n plated lead bullets....further use of the seating die no use...repeat...ALWAYS make up a dummy round and check it will chamber, before you load up a lot of ammo. You should not normally crimp the h and n plated bullets....something else to remember..

    amc577

  15. #15
    Randy Bohannon's Avatar
    Randy Bohannon is offline “Junes1 is a whining bellend”
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    Quote Originally Posted by amc577 View Post
    The chap with the unuseable 100 rounds had crimped them....h and n plated lead bullets....further use of the seating die no use...repeat...ALWAYS make up a dummy round and check it will chamber, before you load up a lot of ammo. You should not normally crimp the h and n plated bullets....something else to remember..

    amc577
    Exactly, the crimp has caused the neck and/or shoulders to swell to the point where the cartridge would not chamber.

    That has nothing to do with the cartridge overall length.

    You can crimp H&N plated bullets, and all other lead cored bullets with or without a crimp groove, with the Lee factory crimp die which works differently to the roll crimp in some seater dies but can still cause bulged shoulders if badly adjusted.
    "An infinite number of monkeys banging away at type writers for an infinite period of time will eventually reproduce Hamlet" Thanks to discussion forums we now know this to be untrue.

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