Why is converting a Theoben rammer to spring such a taboo subject?

[look no hands]

Hi all,

Before we start, I know the whole idea of a gas ram was to replace the spring in the first place, so converting it to spring would seem a little daft when there's thousands of springers out there for the taking (with much better triggers as well), which I can agree with and being a rammer lover myself I can see where the other rammer lovers are coming from but when someone mentions about putting a spring in a gas ram, all hell breaks loose but if you say you're putting a gas ram in a springer, then everyone wants to buy you a pint.

Now we all discuss on here frequently that there are not many decent British built break barrel springers worth looking at nowadays, now I know the Theobens internals are not the best dimensions for a springer as commonly discussed by the shed tuners and it would probably take a radical makeover to change them to the prefered 25mm or below internals, what I'm trying to get at is from the outside the Theoben rammers like the Fenman and shorter barrelled Sirocco's are almost a perfect size, weight and stock design for modern (scope only use) hunting situations and the engineering of them are far better than anything that Germany can punt out nowadays, I can now envisage all the rammerites jumping up and down and shouting "then why change it" but as we all know they have their faults and is converting a knackered one (or even a healthy one) to spring such a bad thing if it gives it a new lease of life and the owner enjoys shooting it even more.

Here's an interesting scenario for you, if Theoben had made spring versions of their guns as well as rammers, which version do you think would have sold more? and do you think Theoben would still be trading today (but without the miserable woman on the phone) and if they had produced a spot on spec, shed tuners dream of a springer would we be shunning anything that Fritz had made in the Farterland (don't answer that one Tony).

Cheers

Pete

[MartynB]

Watching this thread should prove entertaining

[look no hands]

Watching this thread should prove entertaining

I'm interested to know why people go apeshit when the word Theoben and spring get mentioned in the same sentence.

Pete

[MartynB]

I'm interested to know why people go apeshit when the word Theoben and spring get mentioned in the same sentence.

Pete

I agree with you Pete, I'm an E Tpye owner but not used it yet (I know it's PCP) but I had one of the earlier Scirroccos in .22 with no open sights (scope only) and a beech stock, it was a pretty accurate rifle

[tinbum]

Changing gas ram to spring is fine in my book, its putting gas rams in springers that makes me feel sick!

[look no hands]

its putting gas rams in springers that makes me feel sick!

Now why's that pray tell

Pete

[robs5230]

The Theo gas ram rifles were brought out and marketed on the strength that it was a self contained system. No maintenence. No wear no power drops.

Over the years, contrary to what they'd hoped they're anything but that. Constant R and D and changes within the internal model types sort of proves they knew they never had it quite right though the initial concept was fantastic.
Trigger feel and weight due to the enormous pressure exerted by the ram makes them poor compared to the benchmark CD and Rekord. The choice to use gamo and webley type triggers probably wasn't the best move.

The fenman is proportionally perfect as a field rifle. I reckon if Theoben were to have made the Fenman as a springer (and lets face it, its a pretty easy conversion any way so to make one factory spec would need little in the way of redesign) the rifle would still be sold today assuming fit and finish quality remained the same and yes I reckon it would have saved the company.

Impact have the ability to make a springer along the same lines. Again I reckon that would have saved Impact. I've actually messaged Chris about this on more than one occasion but had nothing back.

My plan at some point is to convert a fenman to a springer (I did the same with a scirocco in 1996). Mainly in my mind to eliminate the complex ram system and its inherant faults.

Now a fenman with a CD trigger unit........ that would be some rifle indeed and probably the only rifle I'd ever need to own.

[robs5230]

Now why's that pray tell

Pete

The aftermarket rams turn a perfectly serviceable springer into horrid rifles

[look no hands]

The aftermarket rams turn a perfectly serviceable springer into horrid rifles

I know what you mean, I've had two of those rams and both have leaked, the one I had in a BSA Superstar wasn't too bad as the extra weight of the rifle helped calm the recoil.

Pete

[look no hands]

The Theo gas ram rifles were brought out and marketed on the strength that it was a self contained system. No maintenence. No wear no power drops.

Over the years, contrary to what they'd hoped they're anything but that. Constant R and D and changes within the internal model types sort of proves they knew they never had it quite right though the initial concept was fantastic.
Trigger feel and weight due to the enormous pressure exerted by the ram makes them poor compared to the benchmark CD and Rekord. The choice to use gamo and webley type triggers probably wasn't the best move.

The fenman is proportionally perfect as a field rifle. I reckon if Theoben were to have made the Fenman as a springer (and lets face it, its a pretty easy conversion any way so to make one factory spec would need little in the way of redesign) the rifle would still be sold today assuming fit and finish quality remained the same and yes I reckon it would have saved the company.

Impact have the ability to make a springer along the same lines. Again I reckon that would have saved Impact. I've actually messaged Chris about this on more than one occasion but had nothing back.

My plan at some point is to convert a fenman to a springer (I did the same with a scirocco in 1996). Mainly in my mind to eliminate the complex ram system and its inherant faults.

Now a fenman with a CD trigger unit........ that would be some rifle indeed and probably the only rifle I'd ever need to own.

My neighbour will be hopefully machining up a new spring guide for the monster spring I have to go in my Sirocco (I've read they need a lot of spring to make power), so hopefully by next weekend I'll have it up and running and we'll see how it shoots.

Pete

[Shed tuner]

you will be cursed for all time...

[robs5230]

My neighbour will be hopefully machining up a new spring guide for the monster spring I have to go in my Sirocco (I've read they need a lot of spring to make power), so hopefully by next weekend I'll have it up and running and we'll see how it shoots.

Pete

You're right with the power. I think its the seal. With a better designed seal even the gas rams would potentially shoot better. I find the seals very hard. Hard means a tight fit to work. A tight fit means a lot of power needed to move the piston. A little attention to getting the seal sized better may be the key. I'd be tempted to look at O rings if i ever manage to get a project fenman. It may be that a better seal is now on the market that could be re purposed. When I did mine there were no options back then

[angrybear]

Just a guess, but maybe because there are countless springers already out there so why spoil/convert from the original spec.

Bit like taking the original engine out of a MK1 Escort to fit a front wheel drive buzzbox

[Blackrider]

I think the early Theoben gas rams are beginning to take on that "holy status" that collectors seek. So much of the "opposition" to converting a Fenman is seen as heresy by many, irrespective of how well it may shoot.

[archie]

I know a shooting mate had a Theoben some years ago and he had great problems with leakage. After a while he gave up and converted to spring and I think Venom did the conversion, although I`m not 100% sure about that as it was some time ago. After the conversion he was more than happy with the rifle.