Classic air rifles... 'To scope, or not to scope?"

[Hellequin]

Following my recent purchase of a nice condition FWB Sport 127, I've been left pondering whether to 'scope it up' or not...

I initially put a wanted ad on the Bbs for some period glass in the hope of an old Japanese Tasco or Kassnar, however I eventually decided instead to use a little Bushmaster 4x32 (gloss finish of course) which I already had. I have to say, the scope suits the rifle and the optics are certainly ok, however due to it being in low mounts, I get a nice blurry image of the foresight hood in my sight picture.

I could, of course, just remove the foresight hood. Maybe high mounts would resolve the problem. That said, I prefer the head/eye alignment which the low mounts give and at the same time I'm loathe to remove the open sights both for the risk of losing them and also because, from and aesthetics/vanity point of view, I actually like the look of the rifle with them on.

So after all that waffle, do you prefer your classic air rifles scoped or left with open sights?

At the minute I'm undecided whether to leave the Bushmaster on my 127 and put up with the image (it won't be used on live quarry in this set-up) or remove it and just enjoy the open sights...

[Paul SE]

I did wonder whether or not to leave my Mk1 .22 Vulcan unscoped, but a nice period Tasco 643W 4x40 came up for sale on here, and I bought it for a very reasonable price.

I have left the open sights on the gun for the time being, although I will probably take them off and store them safely as there is a small crack in one of the rear sight adjustment knobs.

The frontsight hood doesn't cause a problem and is not visible through the 'scope using medium Sportsmatch mounts.

https://i.imgur.com/PTKiKJj.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/S5z6VfU.jpg

[WILBA]

Depends if your eyes are knacked like mine i have no choice

[Paul SE]

Depends if your eyes are knacked like mine i have no choice

Indeed, an important consideration

I can use open sights with varifocals on but don't wear glasses when using a 'scope.

[Blackrider]

Recently bought an "old warhorse" Mk2 Airsporter .22 which I'm persevering with the opens despite deteriorating eyesight. I did consider mounting a gloss black period Jap 4x32 on it but it wouldn't fit into a nice old canvas Brady type gunslip which has also just come my way !
I've also just taken charge of a very nice Airsporter S .22 which I am putting a terrific period BSA 4x33 Jap scope again finished in gloss black. Really looking forward to shooting this combo hopefully tomorrow as for an Airsporter, has a very good trigger !
And yes, I too like leaving the original open sights on despite the fact that the foresight can sometimes be seen vastly out of focus on low mag scope settings.

[andrewM]

It is a very good question, BarnsleyBob. Alas, with my 'new' FWB 127, I have no option because the sights were removed by the previous owner and never restored. As I recall from my teenage years, when I had an FWB127 - also in .22 - the sights were provided with three settings on the vertical: at 10m, 30m and 40m. I seem to recall trying these but the readings did not fit the distances implied. They were no more than an indication. Perhaps there was a further adjustment knob but even so, there were only three elevation settings. This was a problem.

I used the good weather two days ago to shoot my Webley Omega at 25yds with open sights. Since tightening up the breach screws, which connect the barrel to the body of the rifle - which were loose - I have managed to obtain improved accuracy. At 25 yds, I was obtaining very satisfactory groups between 3/4in - 1in and I think these could be improved upon, just. However, with a scope, these could certainly be bettered and I tested this option successfully, too. Moreover, at greater distances, the groups would benefit from a scope. Furthermore, a scope also permits a degree of holdover and hold-under, depending upon the distances and the range at which the scope has been set - ie it might have been 20yds, 25yds, 35yds or more. It is more difficult to make this holdover adjustment on open sights.

I have an early 1920s BSA Standard (operating at nearly 11.3ft/lbs) with open sights, where there is no choice available. I have decided to leave the Omega with open sights but might see if I can obtain a peep-sight for it. That leaves my FWB and Webley Longbow (both acquired this year), with scopes. This way, I can vary the choice between open and scoped, without having to remove a scope each time.

Using open sights provides greater satisfaction when one hits the target.

You might find that my solution is the best means of covering the choice - ie by collecting a rather larger range of rifles!

However, some considerable testing of different pellets is also necessary; the extent of the variance is quite remarkable.

[Blackrider]

Another option although I've never tried them are the Sportsmatch High See-Through 2 piece mounts, with these you can have the best of both worlds and they may lift the sight line above the rear sight on the barrel when using the scope and partly reduce the "blurred" image ?

[Airsporterman]

It's good using both open sights and/or scopes, peep sights can be particularly good on older rifles. Most Mk1 Airsporters were made without scope rails, so fitting one isn't so easy! The sights were pretty good IMO or at least good enough.

I liked using all the above!

ASM

[thisisdonald]

It depends on the gun I reckon. I have a mk3 Vulcan and a mk2 airsporter that are great fun with open sights. At the moment, the Vulcan has a period Jap scope on it (can't actually remember what it is) and a Webley prosystem silencer, but I think it's all coming off and going back to opens. It's more accurate that way I think. Also the airsporter - wow!! So much fun with open sights!
Speaking of mk2 airsporters, I really want To try ( as suggested by some clever clogs on here a while back) a fusilade or salvo competition... I can't remember the rules but it's gotta be great fun with a bunch of lads and lassies with open sights mk2s!!!!!

[Hellequin]

It is a very good question, BarnsleyBob. Alas, with my 'new' FWB 127, I have no option because the sights were removed by the previous owner and never restored. As I recall from my teenage years, when I had an FWB127 - also in .22 - the sights were provided with three settings on the vertical: at 10m, 30m and 40m. I seem to recall trying these but the readings did not fit the distances implied. They were no more than an indication. Perhaps there was a further adjustment knob but even so, there were only three elevation settings. This was a problem.

I used the good weather two days ago to shoot my Webley Omega at 25yds with open sights. Since tightening up the breach screws, which connect the barrel to the body of the rifle - which were loose - I have managed to obtain improved accuracy. At 25 yds, I was obtaining very satisfactory groups between 3/4in - 1in and I think these could be improved upon, just. However, with a scope, these could certainly be bettered and I tested this option successfully, too. Moreover, at greater distances, the groups would benefit from a scope. Furthermore, a scope also permits a degree of holdover and hold-under, depending upon the distances and the range at which the scope has been set - ie it might have been 20yds, 25yds, 35yds or more. It is more difficult to make this holdover adjustment on open sights.

I have an early 1920s BSA Standard (operating at nearly 11.3ft/lbs) with open sights, where there is no choice available. I have decided to leave the Omega with open sights but might see if I can obtain a peep-sight for it. That leaves my FWB and Webley Longbow (both acquired this year), with scopes. This way, I can vary the choice between open and scoped, without having to remove a scope each time.

Using open sights provides greater satisfaction when one hits the target.

You might find that my solution is the best means of covering the choice - ie by collecting a rather larger range of rifles!

However, some considerable testing of different pellets is also necessary; the extent of the variance is quite remarkable.

Ha! I'm on it with this one Andrew- I'm soon to be adding a lovely RWS Diana 52 Carbine to my small collection! Given that my Supersport is scoped and the 52 will be too (although it does have open sights with it) I may well return the FWB 127 back to just opens, along with the little ASI Sniper that I have too. I'll probably hang on to the little Bushmaster scope though as it gives me a cost-free option of putting a scope back on the FWB if I fancy it.

You're right that the rear sight is marked 10, 30, 40, so I'll give it a test in the near future!

Cheers for the replies gents

[WILBA]

Ha! I'm on it with this one Andrew- I'm soon to be adding a lovely RWS Diana 52 Carbine to my small collection! Given that my Supersport is scoped and the 52 will be too (although it does have open sights with it) I may well return the FWB 127 back to just opens, along with the little ASI Sniper that I have too. I'll probably hang on to the little Bushmaster scope though as it gives me a cost-free option of putting a scope back on the FWB if I fancy it.

You're right that the rear sight is marked 10, 30, 40, so I'll give it a test in the near future!

Cheers for the replies gents

Its not the size of the collection bob its what them guns mean to you. Enjoy every single minute of using them

[Hellequin]

Its not the size of the collection bob its what them guns mean to you. Enjoy every single minute of using them

Absolutely agree with that my friend! I've no plans (yet) to increase from four rifles, although eventually I would like to fill the two spare slots of my gun rack... I can admire & appreciate the really large collections some folk have but I think that personally for me, too 'big' a collection would be a bit wasted if there were too many to use regularly.

All the best.

[WILBA]

Absolutely agree with that my friend! I've no plans (yet) to increase from four rifles, although eventually I would like to fill the two spare slots of my gun rack... I can admire & appreciate the really large collections some folk have but I think that personally for me, too 'big' a collection would be a bit wasted if there were too many to use regularly.

All the best.

I have 18. But most are worth more than i bought them for so they are an investment as well as a collection. Bought 2 more today as the price was right. But its about the love and feeling you get from owning them that counts if you only have the 1 it dont matter.

[45flint]

I’ve wrestled with this as well recently. I really hate taking off sights of vintage guns. It also depends on the guns and as said having multiple guns gives you the option to scope some that make the most sense. I just can’t see scoping my BSA MK2? The sights are old eye friendly and it is just to elegant to mess up. I recently scoped a old Crosman Town and Country and it is making me enjoy the rifle maybe a little more. Using a scout scope saved me taking off any sights which really is nice and certainly a major reason I have no issues doing it.

[Bluefan]

The fwb is so accurate it deserves a scope I enjoy competing (only plinking) with much newer superguns and doing better than anyone expects. I too have rapidly deteriorating eyesight and my hearing is a bit dud,if you want to take the scope off you always can. Got to love a fwb it's the law.