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Thread: British Airgun Championships

  1. #1
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    British Airgun Championships

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    http://shootingcentre.dyndns.org/nsra/british2018/


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    Robin
    Steyr LP2 Short - Walther CP2 - Walther LPM1 - Walther LP53 - Feinwerkbau 65 - FAS 604 - Walther LGV - Walther LGR - Walther LG400 Alutec - Walther KK300 Alutec - Swing 7.62 mm in Walther stock. - Keppeler 6 mmBR with Walther grip and wood!

  2. #2
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    Thanks Robin - good info!

    Is Pam shooting this year ?
    Rossendale Model Target Club every Tuesday and Thursday evening 7 - 10pm.

  3. #3
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    I went today.

    VERY busy. It was fantastic to see both 10M ranges in use at one time, never seen that before. Not a wedding or ice hockey player in sigth. If only it could be like that most weekends, but sadly not the demand.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullbarrel View Post
    I went today.

    VERY busy. It was fantastic to see both 10M ranges in use at one time, never seen that before. Not a wedding or ice hockey player in sigth. If only it could be like that most weekends, but sadly not the demand.
    Maybe if the NSRA events were less expensive to enter they would be better supported?
    Rossendale Model Target Club every Tuesday and Thursday evening 7 - 10pm.

  5. #5
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    Cost

    Quote Originally Posted by zooma View Post
    Maybe if the NSRA events were less expensive to enter they would be better supported?
    Kinda agree with Bob. It's not particularly cheap. Think I paid £45. I shot there Friday and Saturday.
    I didn't think it was poor value for two shoots.

    There were several range officers, electronic targets. Great facility down there in Bisley. Free parking.

    Let's face it, the amo is dirt cheap as well.

    I can blow that amount very quickly with a shotgun.

    The problem is, if your not a NSRA member they charge you an additional £25.
    That's why a lot of people don't enter.

    If they loose that charge, I'm sure it would be fully subscribed like the Welsh Championship always seems to be.

  6. #6
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    It works out expensive for people in the north, add in fuel costs + 1 or 2 nights hotel accommodation.
    Evo 10 Compact.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by silvershooter View Post
    It works out expensive for people in the north, add in fuel costs + 1 or 2 nights hotel accommodation.
    Even worse for us north of the border

    Bill
    AA S200T 10m , HW100T, Cometa 220, Diana 27, Original Mod 6, Gamo compact+center, Rohm twinmaster Top, S&W 586/4+6+8, Berretta 92 airsoft, Blinged crossman 2240, IZH-53M, CP88 4", Kandar CP1, CO2 Uzi 6mm, Air arms Alfa proj .177, Drulov DU10 .177, HW 99s

  8. #8
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    Maybe if the NSRA events were less expensive to enter they would be better supported?
    Sorry folks but itís time to get real. Take a look a the entry fees for other sports. A ďminorĒ half marathon will cost upwards of £30, the popular events start at around £75. Triathlons are in the range £100-300. If you fancy a bit of competitive open water swimming then be prepared to part with £40 upwards for the privilege of getting cold for an hour or two! All the above fees relate to local events, not a national championship held in a purpose built facility.

    Thatís before we take into account the expenses for the range officers, equipment control officers, judges and thatís just for staters. They all give their time for free but you have to be prepared to reimburse them their expenses; and they are not generous. On top of that, all these people have already invested a great deal of time gaining the relevant qualifications; itís not just the NSRA RCO; and probably spent a considerable amount in doing so.

    So, looked at that way, I think £45 for a National Championship is very cheap, in fact too cheap. As for not paying an additional fee as a non member, why should I subsidise you?

    Rutty

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rutty View Post
    Sorry folks but itís time to get real

    So, looked at that way, I think £45 for a National Championship is very cheap, in fact too cheap. As for not paying an additional fee as a non member, why should I subsidise you?

    Rutty
    Maybe that is what is needed to prevent the sport from dying?

    I remember shooting in the champs when it was at Cardiff and also shooting in the NSRA postal leagues too and there was no need to be a member (other than an affiliated NSRA member of an affiliated club).

    Everyone was happy to shoot in the various NSRA competitions then as the only cost was the entry to the chosen competition, but now the extra cost of having to also become a full member drives the average club member away to shoot in some of the many other competitions they can now choose instead - and who can blame them ?

    The NSRA should not be seen as an elitist establishment but one that encourages everyone to participate by making it more affordable.

    More entrants would provide more income and help to promote the NSRA as the governing body for everyone and not the few.
    Rossendale Model Target Club every Tuesday and Thursday evening 7 - 10pm.

  10. #10
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    Maybe that is what is needed to prevent the sport from dying?
    If you look at the entry criteria in most other sports, local events levy a surcharge for unaffiliated competitors. That's for not being a club member not NGB membership. As far as I know, most NGBs that have individual membership require competitors to be members in order to enter their sanctioned events. At least the NSRA will allow you to do so on payment of a fee and that's for the national championship. Quite a few NGBs require that affiliated clubs register and pay a capitation fee for all of their members. No registration means no participation and that applies to bodies above club level as well. County associations are barred from affiliating clubs that have not registered with the NGB. Against that background do you still think it is fair to describe the NSRA as "elitist"?

    I remember shooting in the champs when it was at Cardiff and also shooting in the NSRA postal leagues too and there was no need to be a member (other than an affiliated NSRA member of an affiliated club).
    If it was so good then why do you think that they changed the system? Maybe it has something to do with people wanting their own purpose built facility and not having to rely on a temporary venue at the mercy of a third party? Maybe it was unsustainable?

    The problem is that everyone wants a modern dynamic and responsive governing body to run the sport but very few are prepared to bear the cost of financing it.

    Rutty

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by zooma View Post
    Maybe if the NSRA events were less expensive to enter they would be better supported?
    Quote Originally Posted by nickm marshall View Post
    Kinda agree with Bob. It's not particularly cheap. Think I paid £45. I shot there Friday and Saturday.
    I didn't think it was poor value for two shoots.

    There were several range officers, electronic targets. Great facility down there in Bisley. Free parking.
    That's pretty much going rate for ISSF shoots. Especially one with separate finals, provision of Equipment Control, lots of volunteers (who get travel/accommodation expenses which need paying). Also, it's the National Championships. It attracts a premium (and turns a loss, so cutting costs would require the NSRA to suck up a larger subsidy).

    Quote Originally Posted by zooma View Post
    If they loose that charge, I'm sure it would be fully subscribed like the Welsh Championship always seems to be.
    The Welsh is run at a significant subsidy. Moreover, it will be going up this year because the private individual who bought £100k worth of targets and made them available for free is selling up. So they'll have to rent in targets. The Welsh isn't cheaper - it's subsidised by a significant benefactor.

    Quote Originally Posted by silvershooter View Post
    It works out expensive for people in the north, add in fuel costs + 1 or 2 nights hotel accommodation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbill View Post
    Even worse for us north of the border

    Bill
    Whilst I don't disagree (it's bad enough coming from the Midlands), it is the National Championships. There can only be one in the country! Wherever you put it, there will be winners and losers. Arguably Aldersley is a much more central and geographically superior location, but for whatever reason the NSRA aren't interested in doing anything with the site.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rutty View Post
    Sorry folks but it’s time to get real. Take a look a the entry fees for other sports. A “minor” half marathon will cost upwards of £30, the popular events start at around £75. Triathlons are in the range £100-300. If you fancy a bit of competitive open water swimming then be prepared to part with £40 upwards for the privilege of getting cold for an hour or two! All the above fees relate to local events, not a national championship held in a purpose built facility.

    That’s before we take into account the expenses for the range officers, equipment control officers, judges and that’s just for staters. They all give their time for free but you have to be prepared to reimburse them their expenses; and they are not generous. On top of that, all these people have already invested a great deal of time gaining the relevant qualifications; it’s not just the NSRA RCO; and probably spent a considerable amount in doing so.

    So, looked at that way, I think £45 for a National Championship is very cheap, in fact too cheap. As for not paying an additional fee as a non member, why should I subsidise you?

    Rutty
    This.

    Quote Originally Posted by zooma View Post
    Maybe that is what is needed to prevent the sport from dying?

    I remember shooting in the champs when it was at Cardiff and also shooting in the NSRA postal leagues too and there was no need to be a member (other than an affiliated NSRA member of an affiliated club).

    Everyone was happy to shoot in the various NSRA competitions then as the only cost was the entry to the chosen competition, but now the extra cost of having to also become a full member drives the average club member away to shoot in some of the many other competitions they can now choose instead - and who can blame them ?

    The NSRA should not be seen as an elitist establishment but one that encourages everyone to participate by making it more affordable.

    More entrants would provide more income and help to promote the NSRA as the governing body for everyone and not the few.
    I may be wrong, but as I understand, back in those days NSRA membership was bundled in with club membership. At least a basic version was. You were an Associate Member of a sort and you had paid for that. Maybe we could have each club collect £10/member (which would raise half a million quid) and drop the non-member entry fees (or reduce them by half). That is actually what most sports do - individual membership is collected by clubs and paid as part of their Membership Fee. It is transparent to the member and you don't get a choice. As Rutty says, Capitation Fees via clubs are not uncommon. However, because shooting in Britain is fragmented, no one body holds the monopoly position to make such a policy stick (between the NRA, STS, etc). As a result, an awful lot of shooters join their club but then begrudge joining an NGB, seeing it as an unnecessary expense (even though your club couldn't operate without that NGB). So the individual members are subsidising your sport. You're welcome.

    I will grant, NSRA Membership is expensive - it's about a tenner more than the BASC or NRA offerings, but then it also has the best insurance package of the lot (I hear that both BASC and the NRA are in discussion with BlueFin Sport about picking up the same package the NSRA offer). However, it's that way because only 4500 of the 50k members of NSRA-Affiliated Clubs are NSRA members (and once you whittle out the ~600 Life members, full-fee Annual Membership is <4k). If everybody was a member, or even 15k people, then membership fees would be half what they are.

    Unfortunately the NSRA does not have the cash reserves to just drop their membership fees and suck up enormous losses for a couple of years whilst it rebalances.

    Also, to echo Rutty - all the NSRA Open Competitions run at a loss. Why should I subsidise non-Members who want to join in? Why can't we all pay our way?

    Quote Originally Posted by zooma View Post
    Everyone was happy to shoot in the various NSRA competitions then as the only cost was the entry to the chosen competition, but now the extra cost of having to also become a full member drives the average club member away to shoot in some of the many other competitions they can now choose instead - and who can blame them ?
    Which by and large are run on the targets that the NSRA developed (or photocopies of those targets, because people are tightwads), using the rulebook that the NSRA curates, and the scoring is done by volunteers who charge nothing.

    Now if we could get the NSRA staff to work for free and not worry about such trivialities as paying their rent or feeding their children then the NSRA events could also be dirt cheap.

    I have literally been asked "My local postal is only £3 for the winter. Why can't the NSRA be that cheap?" I had to hold myself back from asking "Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you genuinely that stupid?".

    The NSRA could be that cheap if they didn't pay their staff - just like your County Association doesn't pay it's volunteers!

    Shooters need to go out and benchmark against a few other sports. You'd be shocked at how rock-bottom our prices are (because after we're doing spend £'000s on shiny kit, we're too tight to spend money on basics like the governance of the sport).
    Last edited by Hemmers; 16-04-2018 at 01:55 PM.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
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