Best classic rifle trigger? (Other than Record)

[jonnyone]

The best triggers on the older springers other than the Rekord are .....

Hammerli Model 3, Model 4, Model 401, 402, 403, and 420.

Original Diana three ball-bearing release triggers - Model 27, 35, and 50.

Anschutz 335 and 333

These are all near as dammit as good as the Record once set up and the shooter accustomed to using them.


The BSF trigger has a weird kind of hang-up between first and second stage and gets harder to pull with increasing mainspring strength, the Feinwerkbau Sport is OK but not brilliant, BSA triggers are very average, most early Webley triggers are not nice.. the Original Diana 45 and 50T01 triggers also had a sort of 'step' with the second stage and had horrible pressed blades.

The nicest trigger probably goes to the Feinwerkbau 150/300 series, but that was a match rifle and still pisses all over the Rekord and its clones.

As Le Geezer has said, the Original Diana 35 would probably be the one to go for, although the 27 is a very nice rifle if you can find one.

Evening hsing-ee,
I note your observations on the 45 and the T01. Can you define what this step is? I've never heard of it before? Is it a general thing across all models? Or did you.notice it on your own.gun?
Only reason I ask is that I did an amount of shooting back.in the Autumn with a T01 and credit where its due the trigger performed flawless and broke like glass. I've shot two 45s a short time ago and cant recall this step on them either?
I've never really tinkered with the triggers in.my guns and almost all are pretty.much how they came to me.
I'll keep a look out for this now as I think I've six or seven 45/T01s

Dave

[Hsing-ee]

Evening hsing-ee,
I note your observations on the 45 and the T01. Can you define what this step is?

Dave

I didn't express it very well; on the BSF there is a point where the first stage is finished and the trigger sort of 'hangs' almost like a set trigger has been pulled, and then the second stage advances after an increase in pressing pressure. Jim Maccari has written on this somewhere. With my 50T01 and the 45 I used - bear in mind this is 30 years ago! - I found the first stage was taken up, then there was a kind of build-up of pressure before the second stage advanced followed by a lower pressure before the sear tripped. On mechanisms like the Rekord, or even something like the Mercury-S, there is the first stage pressure, then the second stage is a consistent pressure after that, without the slight spike in pull-weight I noticed on the Original Dianas. The three-ball mechanism on earlier Dianas was not like this, and while the greater power and range of the 45 and 50T01 were vaunted by the press and shooters, the triggers were seen as a retrograde step. The actual blades were not very nice pressings either.

This is just my memory of it, and of just two examples of these rifles. The 50T01 is one of the few rifles I really dislike for various reasons, so I may be prejudiced and overcritical.

[Drew451]

The 45 step was mentioned by Ian Law - Big Seth- in a thread recently. I have never detected such a step myself and I rate the trigger highly. The blade is fine with me also. l. For me, its a very easy step (no pun intended) from the 3 ball that most of my guns feature.
Regarding 3 baĺl Dianas- 70s and 80s 27/35's will have a stamped trigger blade and you will have to source an earlier example to get a cast blade. Pretty thin on the ground. As said, both are very good guns but a 27 will usually give around 7fpe or a touch more. A 35 would possibly be a better choice for outdoor competition with longer ranges and wind factored in.

[ptdunk]

Let us know how you get on.

Will do,
might take a while but I’ll be sure to let you know what we end up going with. .

Thanks again,

Knowledge is power.

Matt.

[Hsing-ee]

The 45 step was mentioned by Ian Law - Big Seth- in a thread recently. I have never detected such a step myself and I rate the trigger highly. The blade is fine with me also. l. For me, its a very easy step (no pun intended) from the 3 ball that most of my guns feature.

'Big Seth' is not Ian Law although I think he would be somewhat flattered! Big Seth did use a 45 for FT as did that chap who used it in .22 calibre... can't remember his name. Ian Law used the FWB 300 and then I think he went to the FWB Sport like all the clever people.

[Drew451]

I didn't express it very well; on the BSF there is a point where the first stage is finished and the trigger sort of 'hangs' almost like a set trigger has been pulled, and then the second stage advances after an increase in pressing pressure. Jim Maccari has written on this somewhere. With my 50T01 and the 45 I used - bear in mind this is 30 years ago! - I found the first stage was taken up, then there was a kind of build-up of pressure before the second stage advanced followed by a lower pressure before the sear tripped. On mechanisms like the Rekord, or even something like the Mercury-S, there is the first stage pressure, then the second stage is a consistent pressure after that, without the slight spike in pull-weight I noticed on the Original Dianas. The three-ball mechanism on earlier Dianas was not like this, and while the greater power and range of the 45 and 50T01 were vaunted by the press and shooters, the triggers were seen as a retrograde step. The actual blades were not very nice pressings either.

This is just my memory of it, and of just two examples of these rifles. The 50T01 is one of the few rifles I really dislike for various reasons, so I may be prejudiced and overcritical.

Interesting. I will be paying very close attention next time out with a 45. It may be because im so used to them that this phenomenon is unnoticed. I have my 45s set up as close to my 3 balls as adjustment allows. They will never have the same feel, though.
Interesting comment on the Hammerli 400 series also. Guns that have always interested me but i have no experience of them.

[Drew451]

'Big Seth' is not Ian Law although I think he would be somewhat flattered! Big Seth did use a 45 for FT as did that chap who used it in .22 calibre... can't remember his name. Ian Law used the FWB 300 and then I think he went to the FWB Sport like all the clever people.

I beg his pardon! Ian, I'm sure- not sure why i attached the Law to him. Apologies to Big Seth.

[Hsing-ee]

Interesting comment on the Hammerli 400 series also. Guns that have always interested me but i have no experience of them.

The side-lever Hammerlis had trigger units with very long levers, allowing a nice precise trigger. The barrels and taps were extremely well made, but it was a bit of a middle-market gun and so built a bit 'down to a price'. The design was copied and enlarged for the Sussex Armoury Jackal series, but these rifles were not nearly as accurate. There are still a few about, although not on the BBS, I bought my last one off Gunstar for an inflated price.

[Big Seth]

I beg his pardon! Ian, I'm sure- not sure why i attached the Law to him. Apologies to Big Seth.

Granted.

[Big Seth]

'Big Seth' is not Ian Law although I think he would be somewhat flattered! Big Seth did use a 45 for FT as did that chap who used it in .22 calibre... can't remember his name. Ian Law used the FWB 300 and then I think he went to the FWB Sport like all the clever people.

Very flattered! Terry Wheeler would be the fella with the .22...

[ptdunk]

Hi again,
update as promised:

In the end me and the missus decided to take turns using my FWB 124 in the Classic pre-1986 catagory (I won the last comp with it)
and she bought a lovely condition Diana Mod 27 from 1928 that we can take turns using in the Vintage pre-1945 catagory.

It shoots at 8.3 ftlbs with jsb match, which is quite high powered for these, and the trigger has a nice predictable release.

We're looking forward to competing with it as it's very accurate, but needs a fair bit of holdover at 35yds! I've raised the rear sight a bit and am trying to source a spare front sight I can grind down to gain a bit more elevation.

Loving these Vintage/Classic HFT shoots.

Cheers guys,

Matt.

[hwtyger]

If match airrifles arent allowed than its not very difficult to find better trigger than a Record. They áll have better trigger; Walther LG55/lgv, Diana 60/65/66 etc.
Terrific shooters as well.