Dioptre sight mystery

[Phil Russell]

Thanks Rob... I am learning slowly so the information is most useful. It is good of you to 'spell it out' as it were. I had, almost, assumed that was the case because of the various bits of information on adverts for sights. Strange how it is these basic bits of information that you need to find out from those who know as I have not seen it specifically written down. So thank you.

Cheers, Phil

[TenMetrePeter]

Unfortunately the LGR and its rival the 300S have sights that are now "non standard " The front mounting dovetail is nearer 9mm or 3/8". You need a machine shop or if desparate epoxy a standard sight raiser block to the front to match one fitted to the rear.
Moral of the tale is never buy a vintage gun without sights as it usually costs more than the rifle is worth to replace them.
I just sold an LGR for £200 but broken up I could have made more selling you the sights and selling the stock to the other member on here!

[Phil Russell]

Unfortunately the LGR and its rival the 300S have sights that are now "non standard " The front mounting dovetail is nearer 9mm or 3/8". You need a machine shop or if desparate epoxy a standard sight raiser block to the front to match one fitted to the rear.
Moral of the tale is never buy a vintage gun without sights as it usually costs more than the rifle is worth to replace them.
I just sold an LGR for £200 but broken up I could have made more selling you the sights and selling the stock to the other member on here!

One of life's little learning curves, I guess.
On the plus side, the rifle did not work when I got it but I really enjoyed resealing it and seeing it work on spec after I had done so. And I now know what a 'puffer seal' is.
Cheers, Phil

[RobinC]

One of life's little learning curves, I guess.
On the plus side, the rifle did not work when I got it but I really enjoyed resealing it and seeing it work on spec after I had done so. And I now know what a 'puffer seal' is.
Cheers, Phil

Phil
You may find a better response to this in the classic collectors forum, but Bob (Zooma) has your answer, he has a full set of original LGR sights front and rear.

Walther front dovetails ARE different to Anschutz and every one of the modern companies , but Walther have not changed their dovetails since day one, they are the same profile today on modern Walther's, in fact up until very recently being old farts we always specified the standard 18 mm old style metal element carrying Walther front sight on our new Walthers, and had then on LG300's, LG400's, KK300's, and KK500.

The LGR front sight is different in finish, its a crackle finish, but the new current Walther 18 mm metal element holding standard front sight will fit the LGR dovetail perfectly, as will a Centra Walther fitting, and I've just tried both on an LGR to prove it!
The rear Walther dovetail is also the same from day one, and Anschutz items will also fit on that, and FWB with a tad easing. If you just want any sight, any of those will fit the rear. The correct LGR sight was used on the small bores of that period as well, and there are several slight variances over the years, all are OK. A few years (8 ish) ago Walther had some LGR pattern sights made for collectors in China, they were marked Walther and also had another logo underneath, but they were not happy with the quality and quickly withdrew them.

Have Fun
Robin
Best of luck

[RobinC]

Maybe as a general note this may be useful to those looking to change sights or fit sight raisers to target rifles.

There is No standard dovetail across the modern makes! BUT, most use, or SAY they use the Anschutz pattern dovetail. Across the current makes Anschutz, Bleiker, Keppeler, Pardini, Steyr, R&L, and so on, profess to use the Anschutz pattern dovetails, an Walther do for the rears, they all do, ish!

But in many cases there are variances in tolerance's, an example, we use Keppeler rifles who say they use Anschutz dovetails, yes, but, they are machined to the n'th, much tighter tolerance than Anschutz, superb precision, but you then often need a Swiss file to get them to fit! A lot of accessory manufacturers make their items with a bit more tolerance, so they will fit most things, and it depends on the method of fitting, but just beware that there are differences even with items claimed to be an Anschutz fit, but often are very tight. So in most cases the Anschutz fit for the rear is "almost" a standard, but I still keep Swiss files! Modern FWB has a very slight angle difference, front and back, and some Anschutz will fit, some won't!

We use RPA sights on some of our full bores, claimed to be Anschutz dovetail, well, generally only with attention with a Swiss file! Then the next one will fall one with no attention!

The big difference is front dovetail, Walther are different, always has been, it is a smaller width, and if like us you shoot several disciplines, and have Walther and other makes its a pain in the rear, so we have to have Walther specific front sights and Anschutz ones, and with sight raisers the rears are usable across the range, but the fronts are specific. Also just to confuse Anschutz changed their front dovetail in the 80's, so one date won't fit the other!

Early classics are a law unto themselves, Original/Diana, and so on are unique to them, although I have in the past modded Anschutz sights to fit on them.

So now I've really confused you, when you need sights or raisers, its best to order direct against the make, but also order a set of Swiss files!

Fun game this!
Robin

[Phil Russell]

Ho ho ... I had to laugh on reading the previous two posts ... so much for standardisation. I can see it is a minefield and I had not even considered the dovetail angle.
For the record, I have a Parker Hale PH1 foresight that fits very well on the LGR and I assume the angle is OK. But I have a foresight which I think is a HW one, or maybe Original that although it looks as if it should slide on the dovetails, will not. The difference is minimal, but enough. I have not resorted to Swiss files ...
The rear dovetail seems to be standard 11mm, or as near as I can judge as a set of normal scope mounts fit OK.
I am still learning and really appreciate all the information being given.

Onwards ..
Cheers, Phil

[Phil Russell]

OK: more confusion to be added to the fray. Not exactly 10m rifles but Original did 'Target' versions of the 35 and 50 models, equipped with dioptres.
I had a chance to look at their dioptre fittings this afternoon and guess what: they are all different and no way will any fit onto an LGR; indeed they will not be transferable from one model to the other. The ones with the large 'thumb wheel' fitting clearly fit onto dovetails with cross grooves to allow fine tuning of the position. Another version can be adjusted for elevation but seen to be screwed to the cylinder.
I wondered if a HW dioptre from a HW57 might fit, but no, the rails may fit but the fact that the bottom rear of the sight is below the cylinder means the LGR cocking lever cannot operate. Maybe a riser block would help but it would clearly be a bodge and so I consider it a 'no go'.
Clearly a lot to learn ...
Cheers, Phil