Thinking of trying HFT

[ChrisC]

Where I am, there are even less HFT courses than FT which is why I shoot bench rest.
Also, many of the nearby ( 20 or 30 miles or more) clubs are closed to new members anyway. I hope others are more fortunate in this respect.

Hi Noz, i was at the GP too but not shooting as i mostly do HFT these days. i was servicing 3 Steyrs.

If you fancy a run to Emley Moor (just around the corner from Redfearns) then please PM me and i'll make sure the HFT course is painted, kettle is on and there'll be some sound blokes to show you the ropes and help you out if you fancy seeing what HFT is about. You never know mate, we might be able to check whether there are any slots available at local clubs

[noz1]

Hi Noz, i was at the GP too but not shooting as i mostly do HFT these days. i was servicing 3 Steyrs.

If you fancy a run to Emley Moor (just around the corner from Redfearns) then please PM me and i'll make sure the HFT course is painted, kettle is on and there'll be some sound blokes to show you the ropes and help you out if you fancy seeing what HFT is about. You never know mate, we might be able to check whether there are any slots available at local clubs

Many thanks, Sir. May take you up on it but at the moment, I am really struggling with mobility; even the bench rest is a pain at the moment; Cheers, Noz.

[ChrisC]

Many thanks, Sir. May take you up on it but at the moment, I am really struggling with mobility; even the bench rest is a pain at the moment; Cheers, Noz.

No worries Noz, Are you struggling with driving?

Just to clarify the costs involved in FT and HFT. I'm covering PCP's here.

For HFT the lower end would be the S400 and a SH scope, something along the lines of the 10x44 MTC Viper with SCB ret. You could compete for approx £350....maybe £500 if there's a bottle too. the upper end can be the Target rifles (or custom made jobbies) with something like a March, Nighforce or leup. You're looking at 2-3k (at least). My HFT rig is a Steyr with a 10x42 Sightron....probably around £1400 for the rig so pretty much in the middle.

For FT the lower end can be the same rifle, it's the scope that going to cost as the better the glass then (normally) the better the range finding also better turret tracking and mag adjuster. You can compete with some of the older 8-32x40 bushnells (£250-£350 SH)but would struggle to compete with the FT sightron and top of the tree March, it all depends on what level you want to compete at. When walking around the GP you'll see a lot of the top kit as a GP is pretty much top level and the shooters would have been littered with World, Euro , British and regional champs. When shooting these comps you get to meet some sound people who you wouldn't realise had been a world champ.....only by the fact that they had a blinding score

Edit - just wanted to say that top end kit doesn't equate to top end scores.

[noz1]

No worries Noz, Are you struggling with driving?

Just to clarify the costs involved in FT and HFT. I'm covering PCP's here.

For HFT the lower end would be the S400 and a SH scope, something along the lines of the 10x44 MTC Viper with SCB ret. You could compete for approx £350....maybe £500 if there's a bottle too. the upper end can be the Target rifles (or custom made jobbies) with something like a March, Nighforce or leup. You're looking at 2-3k (at least). My HFT rig is a Steyr with a 10x42 Sightron....probably around £1400 for the rig so pretty much in the middle.

For FT the lower end can be the same rifle, it's the scope that going to cost as the better the glass then (normally) the better the range finding also better turret tracking and mag adjuster. You can compete with some of the older 8-32x40 bushnells (£250-£350 SH)but would struggle to compete with the FT sightron and top of the tree March, it all depends on what level you want to compete at. When walking around the GP you'll see a lot of the top kit as a GP is pretty much top level and the shooters would have been littered with World, Euro , British and regional champs. When shooting these comps you get to meet some sound people who you wouldn't realise had been a world champ.....only by the fact that they had a blinding score

Edit - just wanted to say that top end kit doesn't equate to top end scores.

I did say that that I knew it was an Elite event and as such, top equipment would be in use. As a golfer for 50 years, I am well aware that top kit does not automatically ensure good scores! The wind on the day was quite strong, across some of the lanes as well, so the winning score of Andy Calpin, 47, was very good in my opinion. I hope to give it go but it will be after surgery so it will be a while, I'm afraid. Many thanks to all who offered their advice and opinions. Meanwhile, I am sticking to BR.

[SuffolkRifle]

If you can find a club in your area, pop round, and you'll find that the 'average' member wont be shooting the 'top end', and you'll find that there are a lot of S400, old Huntsmen and similar in use, same with the scopes, 10-40x50 Zos tend to be 'entry level' moving up to a second hand Nikko, though in the club I'm a member of, scopes vary from a 3-9 up to a Sightron, also, once you join a club, second hand kit does come up from people upgrading their kit.

[bozzer]

These types of thread are quite common.

I read the blog and It's a well written thing to get the message across that you don't need top gear or be a great shot to turn up and enjoy HFT. So from that point of view it does it's job.

So we often get people that are already in the sport ( sports if we are including FT as that has crept in on this thread ), telling those that are not yet in the sport ( maybe peering in through the window and wondering if they should give it a go ) that you can get started and do well with a springer and a 3-9x40 scope ... just turn up and enjoy the banter. If you just want to eat burgers, drink tea and take the p1ss you can turn up with a thick elastic band and some folded up blotting paper.

Performance wise ... the best shooters would score within a point or so of what they achieve now with £3,000+ worth of top gear if they went around with £1,000 worth of gear. After all ... that's exactly what they were doing just a few years back. That extra couple of grand on top gear just improves their performances by a very small percentage ... and they will rightly say that one point over a season can mean the difference between being Champ or Runner-Up.

Putting that another way ... A decent PCP with a well matched barrel and batch of pellets and a decent scope ... costing no more than £1,000 for HFT including a bottle, will get you a long way up the ladder before you need to start spending any more. The rest is down to time on the range and shooting loads of courses to learn range, wind and adaptability. Probably not much more for FT ... maybe a tad more for a decent ranging scope. I still reckon personally that anyone with half a brain and the ability to shoot, could use a much lesser mag scope for FT and learn to bracket and get very reasonable scores. Good enough scores to be really enjoying it.

Some folk spend a fortune and will never be more than a very average shot. Some stick with basic kit and go all the way to challenging, and beating now and again, the very best. Some don't really care about scores and genuinely do just turn up for the banter.

Do both sports have to put their hands up though and ask themselves if all the mega kit has really improved the sports overall? Like I said, the same top shooters were winning the same comps just a few years back with kit costing much less. Were the sports less enjoyable then? Was the banter, burgers or cups of tea a lower standard?

Again ... as above ... these threads often lead to those already in the sports preaching to the already converted ( themselves ) about how anyone can just turn up and give these sports a go with whatever kit they have. It's the people who aren't shooting these sports that need convincing and I know that's the point of this thread and the blog article. There's evidence in this thread, again, and I personally think his comments were slightly exaggerated, that a non-participant looks in and 'gets the impression' that you need mega kit to take part and do well.

We can preach to people that they can turn up and just use any old thing, but people are strange things. They don't want to look out of place. They don't want to park their Lada amongst all the Mercs and BMW's. That's why a majority of existing shooters are using thousands of pounds worth of top end gear and still don't get great scores ... certainly no better scores than they'd get with kit costing a fraction of the price. They just want to be with the 'in crowd' and not feel any different than the guys who are knocking down all but a couple of targets.

So we persuade these new folk to turn up and give it a go with their basic kit and lack of experience. What scores do they get? Yes I know ... scores don't really count ... just enjoy yourself. Will they be the same level of scores that they would have got 10+ years ago ... or will they be less because courses have been made tougher to accommodate/test the better shots with top end gear? Will the low scores that the newbies get be so low that they don't keep coming back? Would higher starting scores on yesteryear's 'easier' courses have made the difference and kept them coming back?

When was the period where the greatest number of airgunners flooded towards these sports ( particularly HFT )? Was it after several years of them starting up when word had got around and people with basic kit could turn up, not look out of place, and get scores, on easier courses, that kept them coming back? Or has it been in the last few years since courses have become tougher and the cost of kit risen beyond £2,000+? I really don't know the answer to that. It's a genuine question. If the answer is that newcomer numbers have dropped over the last couple of years then that's maybe telling a story. If newcomer numbers have risen and continue to do so over the last few years, then the introduction of mega kit has enhanced the sport(s).

I enjoyed the blog article. It is written by a guy who has only been shooting a short while, with a second hand TX and a cheapo scope, and he's just top scored in the HFT category of the BRC. So he's not your average Joe. Your average Joe may have had several scores of 30ish with similar kit and thought I'm best staying in bed on a Sunday morning.

As I've always said it's down to the numbers. If newcomers are outnumbering those leaving/retiring then it's all good.

It's great having these threads where target shooters all pull together to sing the usual hymns, but what's probably more useful is a thread, maybe with a poll, asking those who have thought about taking up FT or HFT why they haven't done so. Or ... If you did give them a go but walked away pretty quickly then why?

[cooper_dan]

Bozzer you've made a lot of good points.

2nd place in the open class of the Daystate Midland Hunter Series was decided by 0.76% this year. You could argue that at this level the expensive kit could give enough of an advantage to bump you up a place.

With regards to people wanting to have the best kit, I think there's a few reasons for it. Some of it may be trying to keep up with everyone else, but I think a lot of it is because that's your hobby and of course you want nice things. It's human nature. I would love a Ferrari 355 F1, but I know it wouldn't make me a fast driver.
Although saying this, looking at the rifles/scopes in use at the Worlds would indicate that a lot of people are buying top kit to try and bump their score up.

I wasn't shooting 10 years ago, so I don't know what the courses were like. But I can comment on current courses. It does somewhat depend on an individual's attitude, but I personally think there are enough targets in the easier to middling category to ensure newcomers can get an OK score. When we first started we could normally get 30's unless there was extreme wind. One of the people that shot with us didn't get much practice either because he didn't own an air rifle (shared mine) and he could still plate most things and knock a few over. That was enough for us, but a very competitive person might think sod that and give up. I guess this is a personal thing.

Am I an average Joe? Mostly. I don't have any secret shooting background or high baseline skill level to draw from. But I am lucky enough to get a lot of time to practice (I shoot 3 or 4 times a week, even if its only 30 minutes sessions after work) and some of that I would class as actual training instead of generic plinking. Not everyone is able to (or wants to) take it this seriously, in which case they might not progress as far with the basic kit. That's why a lot of people will upgrade quite quickly.
Maybe there is an issue with what is considered a good score. I think 30 for a new shooter is perfectly reasonable, but then some more experienced shooters may be very unhappy with a 45 and vocalise it. I'm very guilty of this myself and it could be demoralising for a beginner. I really like the idea of A and B grades, but implementing this is a challenge and is a whole other topic in itself.

I like the idea of a thread/poll. I'm going to make one now