Webley Osprey Supertarget.

[p.j.]

Bought one of these today, on a whim as you do.
Dont know very much about these, other than they are 10M target designed guns.
Mine doesnt have the full heavy target stock, but the walnut sporter type.
All complete with the Anchutz diopter sights, and added bonus of the interchangeable elements (in plastic round box), and the Allen keys with fob explaining their use.
Am I right in thinking the barrel unscrews?
Any more info would be nice , including market value- condition is very nice, couple of marks but all the finish is there.

[Geezer]

Bought one of these today, on a whim as you do.
Dont know very much about these, other than they are 10M target designed guns.
Mine doesnt have the full heavy target stock, but the walnut sporter type.
All complete with the Anchutz diopter sights, and added bonus of the interchangeable elements (in plastic round box), and the Allen keys with fob explaining their use.
Am I right in thinking the barrel unscrews?
Any more info would be nice , including market value- condition is very nice, couple of marks but all the finish is there.

According to Chris Thrales' book, these were announced a couple of months after the Osprey was introduced in mid-1975. Initially, they had the standard stock. For a while (roughly 1976-79/80) the standard stock model and the target stock one were marketed in parallel. After about 1980, the Supertarget was only available in the heavy target stock.

Price-wise, hard to estimate. On the plus side, they are a Webley, and fairly scarce. On the other hand, they are scarce because, compared to the German competition, they weren't very good as match rifles, particularly with the sporter stock. So the market is very much for Webley collectors, whereas hobby shooters still buy things like HW55s and FWB300s to use, as well as collect. Dunno, really. £150-200?

[p.j.]

Thanks for that, fills a few holes in my knowledge.

[bill57]

The barrel is screwed into the cylinder, but normally they're firmly glued or loctited in place, and it takes considerable heat to break the bond and unscrew it. I know the Geordie collector on youtube unscrews his but none of mine have ever been like that.

The bull barrel gives very good balance and they can be made to shoot very nicely, but a lot of them are dogs. The trigger's shortcomings are well documented, you can polish the sear/trigger interface and fit a lighter spring, but it'll never be a match trigger. Perfect alignment of the loading tap is critical, if it's good they can be very accurate, if it's bad it'll do your head in as the pellets go all over the place.

Value is all about how much somebody wants one, and you see them advertised for silly money. If it's really good with the full set of sights then maybe £250 or a bit more, but you're into the price range where there are arguably better choices so the market is limited to diehard fans.

[p.j.]

Thanks for that, it was the collector on youtube that I saw, that made me wonder about the barrel.

[Hsing-ee]

Who bought these rifles? They would be competing against the Anschutz 335S and the HW55 rather than the FWB300 etc, but were poor competition for the recoilling springers as for the recoilless. An HW35 with a German home market mainspring and a diopter would knock it into a cocked hat.

I suppose Webley thought it was carrying on the tradition of the Webley Mk 3, with a dedicated fixed-barrel target gun. But they must have been drunk or totally self-deluded to think that the Osprey could step into the shoes of the Mk 3, especially as things had moved on. It was a fixed-barrel Hawk, not a child any parent could be truly proud of.

Taploaders were seen as being stronger and potentially more accurate than break-barrels, and the side-lever is the best arrangement for a target gun. It is my favorite format, and a ProSport with a 25mm piston and a sidelever would be my 'perfect' rifle.

The standard Osprey is very elegant to look at, and I like the front-heavy balance and unique shotgun like pistol grip. But the duff trigger and piston rings put me off ever buying one.

Webley did show a moment of genius when they bobbed the barrel, upped the power and called it the Tracker, a springer that was unreasonably popular in its time, at least until airgunners figured out how to use a Junior hacksaw...

[bill57]

Webley did show a moment of genius when they bobbed the barrel, upped the power and called it the Tracker

That, of course, is a matter of opinion - personally I hate the Tracker. I think the marketing was mad, they upped the power with a PTFE washer and reduced transfer port, produced short barrelled (Tracker) and long barrelled (Viscount) variants. But with the Viscount they used a thin barrel, not the 19mm bull barrel which was the best feature of the Osprey!

[Hsing-ee]

That, of course, is a matter of opinion - personally I hate the Tracker.

I am not fond of them either. I remember when someone brought one to the club hot from the foundry, and thinking why would anyone want a duff old Webley design with a barrel that was so short it cracked like a rimfire? It was about the time that the HW80 was relesed and there really were better things to waste one's money on... still, it was the shortest gun in the club for a long while for whatever that is worth. Good for shooting rats in a broomcupboard?

[Geezer]

That, of course, is a matter of opinion - personally I hate the Tracker. I think the marketing was mad, they upped the power with a PTFE washer and reduced transfer port, produced short barrelled (Tracker) and long barrelled (Viscount) variants. But with the Viscount they used a thin barrel, not the 19mm bull barrel which was the best feature of the Osprey!

The Tracker sold well, though. Marketing matters.

It also, especially with the Deluxe walnut stock, handles well, and is a competent rat-blaster at short range.

[harry mac]

It always make me laugh when people say the Webley trigger is bad. Really? What's so bad about it, when taken in the context of the day? It was a much better trigger than many rifles it was in direct competition with; Milbro, Relum, ASI, it was also much nicer feeling than any of the Sussex armoury Jackals, with that horrible mushy, bendy plastic blade. OK, there is some creep to it, but practice and trigger control take care of that. You can't really compare it to a HW Rekord (it IS on a par, in my opinion, with the earlier HW Perfekt trigger) because when the Hawk was retailing at about £30, and the Osprey at about £40, the HW35 was already about £55. A lot of money in 1976/77.

[coburn]

Who bought these rifles? They would be competing against the Anschutz 335S and the HW55 rather than the FWB300 etc, but were poor competition for the recoilling springers as for the recoilless. An HW35 with a German home market mainspring and a diopter would knock it into a cocked hat.

I suppose Webley thought it was carrying on the tradition of the Webley Mk 3, with a dedicated fixed-barrel target gun. But they must have been drunk or totally self-deluded to think that the Osprey could step into the shoes of the Mk 3, especially as things had moved on. It was a fixed-barrel Hawk, not a child any parent could be truly proud of.

Taploaders were seen as being stronger and potentially more accurate than break-barrels, and the side-lever is the best arrangement for a target gun. It is my favorite format, and a ProSport with a 25mm piston and a sidelever would be my 'perfect' rifle.

The standard Osprey is very elegant to look at, and I like the front-heavy balance and unique shotgun like pistol grip. But the duff trigger and piston rings put me off ever buying one.

Webley did show a moment of genius when they bobbed the barrel, upped the power and called it the Tracker, a springer that was unreasonably popular in its time, at least until airgunners figured out how to use a Junior hacksaw...

i have an Osprey Supertarget and a HW55MM, and whilst the 55 is far, far better, the Osprey is surprisingly good. Sometimes a rifle that makes you work for and think about each shot, makes you a better shot than one that doesn't. One advantage the Osprey does have is like the the HW77, it has a relatively light piston in a heavy gun so recoil is not an issue.

[Hsing-ee]

[QUOTE=harry mac;7485357 You can't really compare it to a HW Rekord (it IS on a par, in my opinion, with the earlier HW Perfekt trigger) because when the Hawk was retailing at about £30, and the Osprey at about £40, the HW35 was already about £55. A lot of money in 1976/77.[/QUOTE]

If you still had that HW35 now it would still be competitive with new recoilling springers, you can't say that for the others. £55 might have been alot but for 50 years of use it would be a bargain.

[hwtyger]

I have both Supertargets; the mk3 with williams sight, and the Osprey with williams sight (the army version) and the normal version with anschutz sight so I can compare. Both ospreys have the target stock. All 3 are tuned for shortrange targetwork.
The Osprey has the better stock ofcourse. Imo, the Osprey has the better trigger too, once run-in. Its less heavy than the mk3s.
The Osprey is much more hold sensitive though and has more recoil. The mk3 shoot like a dream.
Allthough I must add that the second osprey is smoother to shoot than my first. Dunno why. Maybe other tunespring used. Second one does have slightly heavier trigger. It hasnt shot much.
Indeed, tap alignment is crucial but thats with all taploaders, mk3 included.
I use them all for belltarget (like) shooting. And they all can shoot full points if I do my part. Especially the Ospreys can print some impressive groups too at that range. Most of the time, I get better results with the Ospreys.
The Osprey uses more universal front sight inserts than mk3. The Ospreys are easier to cock.
So why would people buy them those days? Because there's little wrong with them at that range accuracy wise I think. You dó have a disadvantage in trigger compared to Walther LG55 of course and because of its taploader design you have less efficiency so more recoil but that doesnt say much about inherent accuracy, only about ease of use. Its not that difficult to be accurate at 'only '10m. Its not an everyday rifle either. For some thats enough to buy it. LG55s you see for sale a LOT, bit like the HW97 plague of today
Dont forget what the Osprey really was; a hunting rifle with a weaker spring and target stock and sights. Its nót a designed match rifle. And as such, it really does a very good job.
I own a LG55T too and I use it for the same belltarget shooting as the above. The Walther LG55 was a breakbarrel design with its own inherent downsides.
The LG55 shoots like a dream but has a rare size inserts. Its quite easy to shoot though.
They all have their own charm and ups and downs imo. I wont sell any of them. Not while Im still alive.
Regarding value: Id state them at about 300 ivgc. Those with williams sight or with standard stock are more rare.

Anyway, take good care of it and have fun with yours!
Still hoping to add a normal stocked Osprey ST to the collection one day

[p.j.]

Good bit of information there Yana, thanks for posting that.

[bill57]

Another interesting quirk of Ospreys is the widely varying quality and width of the scope dovetails. My Supertarget has properly cut (flat bottomed, curved ends) but oddly sized 11.7mm rails. My others have strangely cut "in the round" rails with square ends, and sizes varying between 12.4 and 12.7mm. Bit of a nightmare for keen scope users.