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Thread: Different size cylinders and power.

  1. #16
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    Heavy pistons need a lot of spring to accelerate up to speed to make the pressure. If the seal is a bit below par too, it's not a great combination.
    Always looking for any cheap, interesting, knackered "project" guns. Thanks, JB.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shed tuner View Post
    Heavy pistons need a lot of spring to accelerate up to speed to make the pressure. If the seal is a bit below par too, it's not a great combination.
    Why do they make 'em like that? To stop people converting them to spring?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hsing-ee View Post
    Why do they make 'em like that? To stop people converting them to spring?
    Yup, cunning plan. More likely is that the gasram accelerates much faster than a spring initially, because the intial gas pressure (when cocked) is so high, and also due to not having to accelerate the mass of the spring itself.
    Always looking for any cheap, interesting, knackered "project" guns. Thanks, JB.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shed tuner View Post
    Yup, cunning plan. More likely is that the gasram accelerates much faster than a spring initially, because the intial gas pressure (when cocked) is so high, and also due to not having to accelerate the mass of the spring itself.
    ........And, maybe the higher mass of the big, heavy piston maintaining more momentum to combat piston bounce, Jon? Then they later implemented the inertia piston. I wonder, was the mass of the piston lighter, giving quicker acceleration and, maybe, higher efficiency, with the delayed "dollop" from the inertia piston there to combat the bounce? Seem to think that combatting piston bounce was the main raison d'être for the inertia piston.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyL View Post
    ........And, maybe the higher mass of the big, heavy piston maintaining more momentum to combat piston bounce, Jon? Then they later implemented the inertia piston. I wonder, was the mass of the piston lighter, giving quicker acceleration and, maybe, higher efficiency, with the delayed "dollop" from the inertia piston there to combat the bounce? Seem to think that combatting piston bounce was the main raison d'être for the inertia piston.
    The whole thing is a nightmare. Give me one significantly good reason this system is better than a spring-powered 1971 Feinwerkbau Sport and I will send you a jam sandwich.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hsing-ee View Post
    The whole thing is a nightmare. Give me one significantly good reason this system is better than a spring-powered 1971 Feinwerkbau Sport and I will send you a jam sandwich.
    Nah, I'm totally with you on this one, Al.

    Hence I have loads of boingers and not one single gas ram.

    Occasionally I have a daft little notion of maybe adding a '90 to my HW gang, but feel that if the time came I'd most likely end up buying another trusty springer anyway.
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  7. #22
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    err... 'cos they don't "boing" ?
    Always looking for any cheap, interesting, knackered "project" guns. Thanks, JB.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shed tuner View Post
    err... 'cos they don't "boing" ?
    But that's all part of the cuddly, lovely little joys of ownership!

    And, as a Master of Boinger Art, you know that you can dial in as much or as little Boing into every single little darling Boinger as you want!
    THE BOINGER BASH AT QUIGLEY HOLLOW. MAKING GREAT MEMORIES SINCE 15th JUNE, 2013.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shed tuner View Post
    err... 'cos they don't "boing" ?
    Jam sandwich significance NOT ATTAINED.

    None of your boingers boing anyway.

    Gas-rams feel like they are dry-firing even when they aren't.

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    This is getting beyond my knowledge, but anyhow..
    Marconni of USA FWB fame has two spring set for the Sport: Old School and New. Basically the short and long springs have the same power when compressed; latent power. Everything else is to do with the chamber and how all that energy is transferred by air pressure to the pellet and as that pellet travels along the barrel until free. And still leave an air cushion for the piston to come to stop with out slamming into the front of the chamber.

    I had great success with Theobens once they refined their designs. All shot very well. Non had any power or consistency issues. My Fenman hasn't missed a beat in 20 years.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shed tuner View Post
    Heavy pistons need a lot of spring to accelerate up to speed to make the pressure. If the seal is a bit below par too, it's not a great combination.
    So what you're saying is, make a lighter piston and put a better piston seal on it (as well as putting the spring back in) and it will be much nicer to shoot and probably make power?

    Pete
    Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by look no hands View Post
    So what you're saying is, make a lighter piston and put a better piston seal on it (as well as putting the spring back in) and it will be much nicer to shoot and probably make power?

    Pete
    No, he is saying sell it and get a Diana Mod 38 Commemorative.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muskett View Post
    This is getting beyond my knowledge, but anyhow..
    Marconni of USA FWB fame has two spring set for the Sport: Old School and New. Basically the short and long springs have the same power when compressed; latent power. Everything else is to do with the chamber and how all that energy is transferred by air pressure to the pellet and as that pellet travels along the barrel until free. And still leave an air cushion for the piston to come to stop with out slamming into the front of the chamber.

    I had great success with Theobens once they refined their designs. All shot very well. Non had any power or consistency issues. My Fenman hasn't missed a beat in 20 years.
    I tried a short Maccari spring in my FWB Sport, it was alot easier to fit but I think it shot nicer with the longer spring. The Theobens have triggers which are poor in action considering the cost of the rifle, I can only think people are buying them because of they are unusual and have rarity status. How many HFT or old school FT competitions did they win? or even come in the prize list. Probably have the same power/accuracy performance as a tweaked BSA Meteor, with half the style.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hsing-ee View Post
    No, he is saying sell it and get a Diana Mod 38 Commemorative.
    BUT IT'S GERMAN! and you know that's a big no no in my books

    There is that other thing that there might be a new British break barrel finally showing it's beautiful head soon

    Pete
    Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by look no hands View Post
    So what you're saying is, make a lighter piston and put a better piston seal on it (as well as putting the spring back in) and it will be much nicer to shoot and probably make power?

    Pete
    Better piston seal will always help, Pete.

    Lighter piston in a wider bore gun will certainly give quicker piston acceleration, Pete, but might not make it nicer / any more accurate as, depending on other set-up parameters, you're more than likely to get greater piston bounce, which is much more detrimental to better accuracy / improved hold sensitivity.

    I've sometimes wondered in this scenario, however, if we went for an aluminium piston to reduce overall weight, but a nice, heavy steel top hat (idea here thinking of increasing the cross sectional density) if this may help?

    Any thoughts, JB?


    Of course, going back to the original flavour of the thread, at our power level, narrow bore is always going to be best.
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