would a new recoilless springer sell?

[Gareth W-B]

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Then StellaArtois Sr you have some ham-fisted compatriots my friend (lol), as I've been shooting PCPs for twenty years and never once had a seal blow.

I too prefer a weighty springer, which is why out of my modest many () my default go-to gun is my .177 walnut TX200HC. Half the allure, here, however, is the manageable recoil, as this gives the gun soul.

I have shot several non recoiling springers over the years though, and I have to say, that without exception, imho, they were all as dull as dish water to shoot.

Further, back in my competiton days, recoilless springers were excluded from shooting in the springer class (so had to compete alongside the PCP brigade), which may (I hope) still be the case to this day?

Nope, I'm not a fan of a non recoiling springers at all, as like all PCPs, are for me, they are void of soul and like a broken pencil (pointless lol ). Each to his own, however, as that is what keeps Airgunning moving. Atb: G.

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[Gareth W-B]

Much truth spoken here.

The fact is that many people, experienced and new shooters alike, actually like the more animate feel of a recoiling rifle and also relish the challenge of mastering its nature. It's so much more of an intimate affair.

Thanks Mr T.

[Geezer]

This could only work at either end of the market:

a) a Gamo Statical type jobbie, offering a "new" gimmick for the mass market (like the recent outbreak of cheap Chinese gas-rams trying to lure buyers from metal springs while being no better);

Or:

b) a Whiscombe replacement for enthusiasts.

Bear in mind the non-PCP mid-market has been slowly eroding/collapsing for twenty or more years. And the PCP market is following: big thing now is cheaper PCPs. That will continue.

You either have to be in enthusiast mode, which probably does not allow for mass production of a £1000+ Whiscombe or SR200 equivalent rifle, or in newbie mode, with the rifle badged as Crosman, and offering a 50% improvement in performance for a 10% increase in cost from a base price in Wal-Mart of $100-120.

Neither will happen. Sad, but, I fear, true.

[nimrod177]

Indeed they are, due to the mastering of the recoil. That is why real springer men don't rate recoilless springers, which is why the selling and marketing of the same has ultimately failed every time one has raised its pointless head in the market place, and been dropped from each given manufacturers model range once the pointless penny drops.

Further, and as has been stated above, if you want recoilless, just get a good PCP like an AA S400 or BSA Scorpion, as these will be a mere fraction of the cost of an over-engineered non recoiling springer, and most probably offer five times the reliability and consistency to boot ???

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If you want a scorpion get your bids in soon as they are stopping production of the scorpion!

[peddy]

Some Hatsan's have a shock absorber system to dampen recoil, no idea if it works or not.

Problem would appear to be the small number of people who would buy one, ie serious springer enthusiasts.

Hatsans have a plastic collar that the front stock screw runs through. It does reduce recoil slightly but nothing that could be called recoiless. One thing I do notice is that non of the stock screws work loose like most springers.

[cooper_dan]

Hatsans have a plastic collar that the front stock screw runs through. It does reduce recoil slightly but nothing that could be called recoiless. One thing I do notice is that non of the stock screws work loose like most springers.

I had a good look at this on a Hatsan Dominator. As far as I could tell it does nothing. The rear of the action is solidly mounted to the stock so all recoil will just be transferred this way. You would need both ends of the action to be isolated for this to work.

The stock screws don't work loose on any of my springers (and I have a few). They just need the correct washers and the right torque and they will stay put

[robs5230]

I don't think there's a market for a recoilless springer any more, not in large volumes anyway. I reckon that ship sailed long ago.
I do think there's a place for a British made, sub12 specific, break barrel springer of quality construction though. Well there's certainly a space for one in my cabinet. Air Arms just have to take the plunge.

[bozzer]

I started with a recoiling springer. I wasn't getting accuracy that I was happy with so tried to get that springer tuned so it would shoot accurately. The guy who did all my tuning for me, Keith Mepham, said straight from the off ... It's probably you and not the rifle. Get someone who can shoot a springer to test it for you with a few different decent pellets.

What? Nonsense!

So I then spotted these recoilless springers. Tried one of those. Much easier to get better accuracy ... but how terribly boring and the trigger just wasn't the same as my old 77.

I then bought the wife a second hand S200, second hand bottle and scope for about £350 all in. Now if you want to hit what you aim at ... get one of these PCPs ... so hunting etc ... use these ... and cheaper than a decent new springer if you search around s/h! For targets and pleasure ... Woefully boring.

So I returned to my old 77's and just accepted that I'd miss a lot more than the other options ... but enjoy it more. Then I learned to shoot ... Ah ...

So ... as all of the above comments ... not a big enough market and boring for the true air rifle shooter.

[Gareth W-B]

If you want a scorpion get your bids in soon as they are stopping production of the scorpion!

Cheers for the heads-up. Shame. I really like mine. Wonder what they will replace it with? S'pose time will tell? Atb: G.

[NickG]

Hasn't anyone seen the pictures of the new Sterling arms recoilless springer prototype going around a couple of months ago ?

https://www.facebook.com/15052046566...type=3&theater

[les allam]

Hasn't anyone seen the pictures of the new Sterling arms recoilless springer prototype going around a couple of months ago ?

https://www.facebook.com/15052046566...type=3&theater

I had a good look and a hold of the Sterling arms prototype at the shooting show,it was a interesting gun and was not to heavy imo ,about 8.5 lbs in weight.I would have liked to have had a shoot with it. It's not going to be a cheap gun to buy,but some people will buy it.
Les..

[Loki_79]

Given the range of linear bearings available now, I've got a long term plan to copy an SR using a normal TX mounted on proper linear bearings, not just some bushes clamped onto an aluminium extrusion. However, this will be after I've done another long term plan, step one of which involves purchasing a lathe - probably after the kids have left home.. So if someone else can do it in the mean time, it will save me a lot of bother!

[Geezer]

I had a good look and a hold of the Sterling arms prototype at the shooting show,it was a interesting gun and was not to heavy imo ,about 8.5 lbs in weight.I would have liked to have had a shoot with it. It's not going to be a cheap gun to buy,but some people will buy it.
Les..

That weight figure is interesting. I'd have expected more like 9.5-10 lbs, or more.

They are saying £1400. I'd wager that is more likely to go up than down if they take it into production.

Whereas the D54/56TH are around £510-£700 depending on the model and the dealer selling it.

So the Sterling is going to have to be bloody good to succeed against that competition. In particular, it will need, as a basically unknown airgun brand, to appeal to US buyers.

I wish them well, but I would not (yet?) recommend buying shares in them.

[TonyL]

Given the range of linear bearings available now, I've got a long term plan to copy an SR using a normal TX mounted on proper linear bearings, not just some bushes clamped onto an aluminium extrusion. However, this will be after I've done another long term plan, step one of which involves purchasing a lathe - probably after the kids have left home.. So if someone else can do it in the mean time, it will save me a lot of bother!

Ooooh, lovely idea.

I've just had a quick Google for linear bearings. Plenty of companies offering complete systems with shafts. They could work very well. Maybe hydraulically damped, too?

The "block" and shafts could be screwed onto the cylinder and with a little stock material scalloped out?

I wonder if our friend JB has any time on his hands at present?

[Geezer]

I wonder about a sliding action with hydraulic or spring buffers front and rear as a way of insulating spring-surge and associated "recoil" effects from the firer to reduce hold sensitivity without the complexity of some other systems. Rather than start (FWB/AA/Diana style) at one end of the stroke, start in the middle, and let it boing back and forth during all stages of the cycle.

On the other hand, my engineering skills basically end at Lego. There's probably a good reason that some of the world's best air gun designers have not adopted my random idea from this evening in the past nearly sixty years of recoilless and suppressed-recoil springers.

I can imagine that such an arrangement, even if it worked in principle, would probably be terribly sensitive to variations in manufacturing tolerances, calibre and pellet choice. And trigger linkage.

Oh well, that's my first and last attempt to design a new air gun.