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Thread: Is over engineering things not needed sometimes.

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    look no hands's Avatar
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    Is over engineering things not needed sometimes.

    Hi all,

    is it sometimes not required to over engineer/complicate something.

    When I was doing up my Airsporter S carbine a few years ago, I was going to put some small roller bearings on the cocking lever axis area, which originally was a roll pin but I replaced that with a bit of stainless steel rod of the same size, the bearings where then going to be mounted to the underlever to hopefully help smooth out the cocking lever stroke (not that it was that bad to be honest), in the end I found that the stainless rod was sufficient enough and a polish of the pin area on the alloy trigger housing and any roughness of the edges and corners of the cocking lever smoothed out, which seemed to do the trick.

    Roll on a couple of years and the Airsporter RB2 faced the same treatment today, I found the stainless rod which has been cut and the bearings are sat on the bench just begging me to fit them to the underlever but I just don't think all the work involved is worth it, I remember the first time I was thinking of fitting them the underlever seemed impossible to drill to fit the bearings (not sure if I had a blunt drill) and my friend who's an engineer tried as well and returned it untouched and I'm sure he said that the bluing process hardened the steel (whether this is true I don't know?) I'm tempted to drill the holes out and try and fit the bearings but feel it's a bit overkill when it seems to work just fine with the rod.

    Pete
    Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in

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    Hsing-ee's Avatar
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    On a practical level it depends how much use you are wanting from your Airsporter. It is rumored that Mr Doe wore out a couple of cocking shoes on his FT HW77 because of the volume of practice. Are you going to shoot 1000 pellets a week for five years with it?

    You can make the parts to last three lifetimes, and there is satisfaction in that.

    Or you can replace the parts as they wear out, there is another satisfaction in that.

    If you like making the parts then do it!
    Last edited by Hsing-ee; 06-05-2018 at 10:46 PM.

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    look no hands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hsing-ee View Post
    On a practical level it depends how much use you are wanting from your Airsporter. It is rumored that Mr Doe wore out a couple of cocking shoes on his FT HW77 because of the volume of practice. Are you going to shoot 100 pellets a week for five years with it?

    You can make the parts to last three lifetimes, and there is satisfaction in that.

    Or you can replace the parts as they wear out, there is another satisfaction in that.

    If you like making the parts then do it!
    Blimey I won't be using it that much, I don't think I even fired 100 shots last year in total with all my rifles, John Knibbs do a new underlever for £25, so not overly expensive to experiment with

    Pete
    Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in

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    Hsing-ee's Avatar
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    I've re-read your original post.

    A roller bearing and having to soften then re-temper the cocking lever seems like far too much work. And if you are making bigger holes in the cocking lever surely that will weaken it?

    Make up another stainless steel pin, that should be enough.

    And you might have some time to shoot! That was 1000 pellets a week, I didnt type enough '0's ...

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    Can’t help with your quandary but I can confirm hot blacking at 144 Celsius has zero effect on mild steel.
    A man can always use more alcohol, tobacco and firearms.

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    Someone came up with the expression KISS - keep it simple, stupid - for a very good reason...

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    look no hands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitwrecker View Post
    Someone came up with the expression KISS - keep it simple, stupid - for a very good reason...
    Very true, I'll probably only bugger it up anyway as I ain't a precision engineer

    Pete
    Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in

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    look no hands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardH View Post
    Can’t help with your quandary but I can confirm hot blacking at 144 Celsius has zero effect on mild steel.
    I think it may have been the case that the drill bit I used was blunt and I found out a while ago that my pillar drill was slipping as the drive belt wasn't tight enough, I expect my engineer friend was more interested in doing his steam engine than having a look at my lever, he's also so old school that if you mention anything about metric or mm's he nearly throws you out his workshop

    Pete
    Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in

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    I have be tinkering with my mk1 rapid for over 20 years. Some of the upgrades were instant improvements in the way the gun shoots and feels, others were not at all noticeable but should increase service intervals and improve reliability. There are a few that are not noticeable at all but none have made it worse.

    Add up all the minuscule improvements and the overall effects can be quite dramatic.

    So it over engineering worth the effort? IMO ...definitely!

    Bb

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    Hsing-ee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by look no hands View Post
    I think it may have been the case that the drill bit I used was blunt and I found out a while ago that my pillar drill was slipping as the drive belt wasn't tight enough, I expect my engineer friend was more interested in doing his steam engine than having a look at my lever, he's also so old school that if you mention anything about metric or mm's he nearly throws you out his workshop

    Pete
    He sounds like quite a character! Blueing is not the same as case-bardening he should know better. Maybe he keeps all his drill bits nice and sharp by never using them on anything harder than brass. Perhaps you can get him to build you a steam-powered airgun for FAC, based on the Holman Projector.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holman_Projector

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hsing-ee View Post
    He sounds like quite a character! Blueing is not the same as case-bardening he should know better. Maybe he keeps all his drill bits nice and sharp by never using them on anything harder than brass. Perhaps you can get him to build you a steam-powered airgun for FAC, based on the Holman Projector.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holman_Projector
    Thats cool mate cheers for that link (one of our club members made a potato cannon and that was Impressive )

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