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Thread: Correcting pistol sight picture

  1. #16
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    I got my lens from specsavers but the one where I live said they could not and would not make them for me. The one in Worthing was marvelous and did a 1st class job.
    I use an Iris on my glasses and they increase the depth of field (Focus) enough to make both sights sharp and make the target almost in focus. Most serious shooters use an iris for this reason.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by silvershooter View Post
    Hi Aaron

    I've had all my lens done at Specsavers (3 or 4). If you have a prescription with them ask them to add on .75 to your distance prescription, they will need a lens holder and preferably a sample lens of the same size.
    I think I paid about £35 each time for a lens with non reflective coating.
    My local Supersavers in Burnley said they were unable to make a lens to fit my shooting glass lens holders for me - even though they had just flogged me (and my wife) a couple of new pairs of specs each a few days earlier!

    The assistant manager went upstairs to speak with the "technicians" but came back down after some time "talking" with them very annoyed and said that they had "point blank" refused to even consider making anything that was not to be fitted into a frame that they had not sold!

    Maybe Specsavers Burnley branch are just very unhelpful and are not prepared to help their customers after they have taken their cash?

    Myself and my family will never go to Supersavers in Burnley again - I think that their attitude stinks - especially as I know other Supersavers branches are willing to make shooting lens for their customers.
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  3. #18
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    Could someone explain exactly what a peep sight does when looked through, how it helps, what an iris does and the same for diopter ? I know what a peep sight, iris and diopter sight is, just not sure how they help, what it is that they do if you know what I mean. Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread a bit....
    Remember, it is the strongest character that God gives the most challenges.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by vbull View Post
    Could someone explain exactly what a peep sight does when looked through, how it helps, what an iris does and the same for diopter ? I know what a peep sight, iris and diopter sight is, just not sure how they help, what it is that they do if you know what I mean. Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread a bit....
    The terms seem to be used more or less interchangeably but I find Dioptre to be particularly odd since for an optician the dioptre is a unit of lens power.

    Anyway the rear sight which consists of a small hole (or the small hole fixed to shooting glasses near to the eye) work by reducing the effective diameter of your own eye lens. This has the effect of increasing the depth of field - the range of distances which appear to be perfectly focussed. It's similar with camera lenses which have an iris. Shut it down to a smaller hole and less light gets in but the range of focus is increased. Generally the dioptre (peep sight) is a fixed size hole (some have a series of different fixed size holes which can be quickly interchanged) whereas the iris is usually continuously variable. Both allow for variable lighting conditions - best is smallest hole that lets in enough light to see the target.
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  5. #20
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    A peep sight is a term used to describe the rear sight on a match rifle, also called a Diopter sight, or even iron sights in some older quarters, it has a rear aperture if fixed of around 1.1 mm, you can have an adjustable iris which will give a range generally from 0.8 to 1.8 (some times more). On a rifle the effect of the rear aperture is to alter your focus to draw it closer to the target, smaller will draw the focus out, you want your concentration on a rifle to be on the front sight element, and the target clear enough to judge the aim, but not in sharp focus otherwise your aim is drawn to the aiming mark from the foresight element and that is the kiss of death to a good shot!

    It is impossible to focus on two focal lengths at once, on a rifle you have the rear sight at a few cm, the front sight, at 85 cm ish, and the target at 10 mt, so you compromise and the ideal is accepted as 2 mts focal length. If you need eye correction with a rifle it is to a fixed ratio, of plus +0.5 dioptre ( a dioptre is the measurement used in lens's) over you long vision prescription, which will take your focal length to 2mts, some rifle shooters with perfect 20/20 vision just use a +0.5 lens to get better 2 mt focal length.

    The same applies with pistol, the rear sight at arm length, say 70 cm, the front sight at say 95 cm, and the target at 10 mt. so you need a compromise focal point again. Unlike rifle where you are fighting to place your shot on a 0.5 mm dot, with a pistol the ten is 11.5 mm, so you can accept a wider tolerance of movement and location than with a rifle, but your alignment of the sights front and back, and vertical line, as it is a shorter sight base is critical, so with pistol the critical aspect of the aim is the sight alignment, so the best compromise for pistol is not out at 2 mts, but on the sights themselves and ideally the front sight, so depending on your arm length a focal length of approximately 95 cm to 1 mt with the examples I used above.
    Being able to see the target sharp is not worth diddly squat! With the sight picture sharp, remember you can not focus on two focal lengths, the target will be fuzzy , if its not then your focus is being drawn to the target, which will be at the detriment of the sight picture, and that is also the kiss of death to a good shot, and you will not understand as you thought it was! But what happened was that you focused on the target, and the sight alignment wandered, and you did not know because you had let your focal length drift out to the target!

    An Iris on pistol glasses produces a peep hole effect on the rear, and it will make your focal length longer, like squinting at something in the distance, this draws your focus off of the pistol sight alignment, another kiss of death and a bad shot will be the result. Shooting like other sports has its fashions, and manufacturers are happy to make kit to sell, remember most kit in a fishing tackle shop is to catch fishermen not fish, shooting is the same!
    Many (most?) good shooters will have tried an iris, most give them up, most have one gathering dust in a drawer, or sold on to beginner, few stick with it, although some use it as focal correction instead of a lens, but its a problem waiting to occur.

    There is another issue with young shooters who will confuse us all with their claim to be able to get a sharp focus on two focal lengths, sights and target, Hmmm? Wrong, Oh no they cant! What they are doing is flicking back and forth so fast as the sphincter muscle in their eyes are young and supple, they believe they have both in focus, but as they tire during a shoot it slows, and the problem aims occur, usually to their total confusion! Worst still as they age, the muscle hardens, and they are then really stuffed, and it starts in the mid twenties, in latter life they have to learn to aim correctly with a fixed focal point on the foresight.

    Any one who wants to improve their aiming I'd advise to shoot on reversed cards, forget the aiming mark, don't need it, concentrate on the rear and front sight alignment, and the placement of that picture on the card, with the correct lens in your glasses focused on the foresight you should be able to shoot at least as good as with the card facing you.

    Have Fun
    Robin
    Walther KK500 Alutec expert special - Barnard .223 "wilde" in a Walther KK500 Alutec stock, mmm...tasty!! - Keppeler 6 mmBR with Walther grip and wood! I may be a Walther-phile?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinC View Post
    A peep sight is a term used to describe the rear sight on a match rifle, also called a Diopter sight, or even iron sights in some older quarters, it has a rear aperture if fixed of around 1.1 mm, you can have an adjustable iris which will give a range generally from 0.8 to 1.8 (some times more). On a rifle the effect of the rear aperture is to alter your focus to draw it closer to the target, smaller will draw the focus out, you want your concentration on a rifle to be on the front sight element, and the target clear enough to judge the aim, but not in sharp focus otherwise your aim is drawn to the aiming mark from the foresight element and that is the kiss of death to a good shot!

    It is impossible to focus on two focal lengths at once, on a rifle you have the rear sight at a few cm, the front sight, at 85 cm ish, and the target at 10 mt, so you compromise and the ideal is accepted as 2 mts focal length. If you need eye correction with a rifle it is to a fixed ratio, of plus +0.5 dioptre ( a dioptre is the measurement used in lens's) over you long vision prescription, which will take your focal length to 2mts, some rifle shooters with perfect 20/20 vision just use a +0.5 lens to get better 2 mt focal length.

    The same applies with pistol, the rear sight at arm length, say 70 cm, the front sight at say 95 cm, and the target at 10 mt. so you need a compromise focal point again. Unlike rifle where you are fighting to place your shot on a 0.5 mm dot, with a pistol the ten is 11.5 mm, so you can accept a wider tolerance of movement and location than with a rifle, but your alignment of the sights front and back, and vertical line, as it is a shorter sight base is critical, so with pistol the critical aspect of the aim is the sight alignment, so the best compromise for pistol is not out at 2 mts, but on the sights themselves and ideally the front sight, so depending on your arm length a focal length of approximately 95 cm to 1 mt with the examples I used above.
    Being able to see the target sharp is not worth diddly squat! With the sight picture sharp, remember you can not focus on two focal lengths, the target will be fuzzy , if its not then your focus is being drawn to the target, which will be at the detriment of the sight picture, and that is also the kiss of death to a good shot, and you will not understand as you thought it was! But what happened was that you focused on the target, and the sight alignment wandered, and you did not know because you had let your focal length drift out to the target!

    An Iris on pistol glasses produces a peep hole effect on the rear, and it will make your focal length longer, like squinting at something in the distance, this draws your focus off of the pistol sight alignment, another kiss of death and a bad shot will be the result. Shooting like other sports has its fashions, and manufacturers are happy to make kit to sell, remember most kit in a fishing tackle shop is to catch fishermen not fish, shooting is the same!
    Many (most?) good shooters will have tried an iris, most give them up, most have one gathering dust in a drawer, or sold on to beginner, few stick with it, although some use it as focal correction instead of a lens, but its a problem waiting to occur.

    There is another issue with young shooters who will confuse us all with their claim to be able to get a sharp focus on two focal lengths, sights and target, Hmmm? Wrong, Oh no they cant! What they are doing is flicking back and forth so fast as the sphincter muscle in their eyes are young and supple, they believe they have both in focus, but as they tire during a shoot it slows, and the problem aims occur, usually to their total confusion! Worst still as they age, the muscle hardens, and they are then really stuffed, and it starts in the mid twenties, in latter life they have to learn to aim correctly with a fixed focal point on the foresight.

    Any one who wants to improve their aiming I'd advise to shoot on reversed cards, forget the aiming mark, don't need it, concentrate on the rear and front sight alignment, and the placement of that picture on the card, with the correct lens in your glasses focused on the foresight you should be able to shoot at least as good as with the card facing you.

    Have Fun
    Robin
    Mostly correct but I disagree on the comment that the peephole or iris or whatever you want to call it will draw the focus out towards the target. I shoot pistol with a glasses mounted iris. Without it and with no spectacles I cannot see the foresight or target with any clarity, much less the rear sight. With corrective lens I can see the foresight but the target is a hopeless blur. The iris allows me to see the foresight in good focus, the rear sight a little blurred (which is fine) and the target a little blurred (which is also fine). I repeat that the iris does not change one's focal length, it increases the depth of field allowing acceptable focus over a greater range of distance.

    I fully agree that seeing the target in clear focus when using iron sights of any kind is completely the wrong technique.
    True freedom includes the freedom to make mistakes or do foolish things and bear the consequences.
    TANSTAAFL

  7. #22
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    Many thanks for the detailed explanation. I have an appointment for early June with the optician at Specsavers for both pistol and rifle (open sight) lenses. They are allowing me to bring a gun or two. The only thing is that with pistol I shoot target guns with one hand and the larger fun guns with two hands so the front sight is at different focal lengths but I'm guessing a few inches won't make a difference.
    Remember, it is the strongest character that God gives the most challenges.

  8. #23
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    Specsavers

    I took my pistol to Specsavers and had them do the "with or without" test while I held the pistol in the correct shooting position.
    Result: an extra 2 or 3 points on the average.
    Just tell them what you are going to do so they don't panic

  9. #24
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    Oswestry, Shropshire
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    Lenses fo shooting Specs.

    I use Specs-by-Post for lenses for my shooting specs. They are much cheaper than the High Street Opticians and the service and quality is excellent. I rang them and explained what I needed, they were very helpful.

    I have my prescription lens (to correct my vision to 20/20) in my frame, and a set of lenses +.25, +.50 etc
    that I clip over my prescription lens for varying light conditions. I have Varga frames and the clip-on lens holder is by Knobloch. I find this gives me a great sight picture - the hard bit now, is holding the pistol still!

    Google Nygord’s Notes, and read “The Eyes Have It”, it’s the best advice I have found on the subject in over 40 years of pistol shooting.

    I also use an iris (for similar reasons as Turnup)
    Last edited by silversurfer; 03-06-2018 at 02:26 PM.
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