Fixed barrel springers, will there ever be a better setup than the sliding breech

[Geezer]

Obviously, the sliding compression tube is best. Decades of match wins by the FWB 65, 80, 300 and HW77 and AA TX show that.

I do like the BSA RB design. I don't think they executed it well. I'd prefer a catch that was less likely to foul a long scope, and auto-opening.

And there's a lot to be said for the taploader.

Yes, there's an unswept volume issue. They will never top the efficiency chart.

Yes, many of us have experienced alignment and other QC issues on things like 1970s Airsporters.

But a good tap-loader, like a BSA LJ pattern, Mk1-2 Airsporter, Webley MkIII, pre-late 60s Diana 50, properly lapped and aligned by hand at the factory, is still a great thing, easy to use (esp with auto-opening), pretty accurate, and very, very, safe.

Sure, no tap-loader will win the FT World Champs, but for general use, a good (good) tap-loader remains a perfectly decent rifle.

The same might apply to pop-ups. But I have never owned one (unless the Gamo Spring pistol rotary breech/tap counts), and just don't like them, for entirely irrational reasons.

[Geezer]

PS - I note with amusement and approval that no-one has suggested that the Sterling/Park bolt action is a great u/l design.

Because it isn't. Though the Park version has some attractions and merit. The Sterling is like an airgun SA80. Interesting idea, badly executed.

[cooper_dan]

With regards to the best breech seal arrangement, for me it has to be the conical seal a la FWB 300. I think in modern terms the BAM underlevers might use this too (please correct me if I'm wrong)

As much as it pains me to speak badly of my TX200, the double o-ring setup is woeful. Fine for the HC that I only use occasionally, but on my full length which I use 3 or 4 times a week they were constantly giving issues

[nurek]

The Whiscombe side lever set up is very good, no bear trap issues at all, direct loading into the barrel, loads of space for someone with big fingers.

Here is what it looks like:

https://goo.gl/images/eeRDVs

This is also favoured on the PCPs...

Best set up there is?

[Barryg]

With regards to the best breech seal arrangement, for me it has to be the conical seal a la FWB 300. I think in modern terms the BAM underlevers might use this too (please correct me if I'm wrong)

As much as it pains me to speak badly of my TX200, the double o-ring setup is woeful. Fine for the HC that I only use occasionally, but on my full length which I use 3 or 4 times a week they were constantly giving issues

Does your full length TX have a tight cocking shoe?
The seal's last longer with the correct amount of play in the shoe

[cooper_dan]

Does your full length TX have a tight cocking shoe?
The seal's last longer with the correct amount of play in the shoe

Opposite problem. Too much play. With 2 fresh o-rings it needs 2 shims to seal properly and bring the power up. After a few months (I would guess 3-4k pellets) power starts dropping off again.
Changed to a one piece seal like the weihrauch now. Hopefully it does better

[Barryg]

Opposite problem. Too much play. With 2 fresh o-rings it needs 2 shims to seal properly and bring the power up. After a few months (I would guess 3-4k pellets) power starts dropping off again.
Changed to a one piece seal like the weihrauch now. Hopefully it does better

I would have thought that AA machining would be uniform, perhaps its not, your HW seal may have sorted the problem but if you do go back to the factory seals it is easy to check if its right, first check with some feeler gages that the gap on the shoe is 25 thou/0.6mm then smear some grease on the breech close the lever and open it and look to see if you have a even seal mark ( remember the mark will get wider when the gun is fired as the tube moves forward squashing the seal more) this is quite a reliable way to check if the breech seal is leaking and the shoe gap is the right size

[FPoole]

Opposite problem. Too much play. With 2 fresh o-rings it needs 2 shims to seal properly and bring the power up. After a few months (I would guess 3-4k pellets) power starts dropping off again.
Changed to a one piece seal like the weihrauch now. Hopefully it does better

I solved my o-ring wear by making sure there's not too much crush. With the factory shoe, there is usually never too much crush, so I get an over sized tool steel shoe from Maccari. When the lever gets near the detent you will feel the seals start to touch and squish as you pop into the detent. I just file a tiny bit at a time until I feel the seals touch the breech just as the arm touches the detent ball. My seals last for a long time and I'm confident they're sealing with single digit velocity spreads. While not perfect, the o-ring set up does the job, in most cases. A friend has a TX that takes 2 full seals and one sanded down to half. I found this by watching him shoot and seeing the slop. Strange part is the gun was and still is very accurate.