Fixed barrel springers, will there ever be a better setup than the sliding breech

[Hsing-ee]

Your Mod. 50 sounds like an interesting project, Ali.

I got it from Protek, they also had a Webley Mk III done by the same chap. I didn't really look at it properly before I got it, I was just amazed that someone had had a go at doing this. The guy was an engineer, but I don't think he knew a lot about spring rifles. The breech has a MASSIVE chamfer on it which must amount to a good bit of lost volume, although probably not as much as that in a tap. The other odd thing is there is a groove cut in the face of the sliding breech but it is too shallow to put anything in it to seal the breech. I will see how much 'meat' there is behind it and maybe deepen it or I might go the bodger's road and glue a ground-down 'O' ring in there. The power loss must be due to the breech seal, or more likely some kind of shit piston seal. The gun is very heavy to cock and the 2 foot-pounds is really a joke. I might keep it as it is if I can get some decent power out of it, otherwise I think I will break it for parts as its kind of dangerous, I will have to make up a block to put in the breech when loading as there ain't no safety and no anti-bear-trap, so its goodbye fingers if the trigger lets go.

An interesting attempt to recycle a taploader though.

[maximus]

To be fair, I think Geezer is right about a well fitted and fettled loading tap being a wonderful thing... however, I've used a lot more bad ones than wonderfully good ones. And with modern production methods being what they are (more automation - less skilled human involvement), I wonder if a new tap-loader would be viable... is it possible with modern machinery/materials? Or is it just too tricky to get the thing perfectly sealed and aligned every time...?

Your Mod. 50 sounds like an interesting project, Ali.

This is why I am advocating a well engineered pop up breech. Easy to add breech seals, pops up ready to load, short tp no problem light and safe. Also, a Steyr type mag could be worked in. It's the future I tell ya!! 😉

[Geezer]

Although less efficient than a sliding comp tube rifle, and potentially not as accurate, one absolutely wonderful thing about those tap loaders is the ease and safety.

Once, at one of the Bashes, I had a go with various tap loaders. And the speed and ease of loading was great. From a safety point of view, brilliant.....for the first few shots, having been conditioned to safe handling practices with break barrels and slidy guns, I was holding the under (or side) lever. Once re-conditioned though, it was great.....cock gun, return lever, flick the tap, drop a pellet in, close tap and shoot. Takes far longer to describe than to do.

And the one that I simply MUST have is one of the Lincoln Jeffries / BSA pre-war underlevers. I've loved every single one that I've tried.

One day, one day........

Tony,

Exactly how I feel about my Mk1 Airsporter. What's not to like? Similar, the Webley MkIII or Diana 50. They won't win target matches, but they are still nice.

[Barryg]

Tony,

Exactly how I feel about my Mk1 Airsporter. What's not to like? Similar, the Webley MkIII or Diana 50. They won't win target matches, but they are still nice.

I like the speed and safety of the mk1/2 airsporter but the mk2s that I had seem to have inconsistent fps and accuracy unlike the sliding breech guns.

There doesn't seem to be real ideas how to improve on the sliding breech, I'm a little surprised since the sliding breech has been out for a while now, the best attempt was perhaps the PS but it's still a sliding breech with a airsporter type lever and it hasn't taken off with other manufactures

Has no one got any exciting ideas

[Hsing-ee]

I like the speed and safety of the mk1/2 airsporter but the mk2s that I had seem to have inconsistent fps and accuracy unlike the sliding breech guns.

There doesn't seem to be real ideas how to improve on the sliding breech, I'm a little surprised since the sliding breech has been out for a while now, the best attempt was perhaps the PS but it's still a sliding breech with a airsporter type lever and it hasn't taken off with other manufactures

Has no one got any exciting ideas

You could use a bolt-action, and instead of a spring-piston design, vent high pressure air from a reservoir UNDER the barrel. The reservoir could be topped off when the pressure drops from a scuba-diving tank. The system would be practically recoilless and the scope could be bolted to the breech, maintaining perfect alignment with the barrel.

[Blackrider]

From a hunting perspective, the HW 77 sliding breech is by far the most practical !
I've used BSA RB2's Airsporters, Superstars and two Goldstars, TX200's but I prefer the wide breech 77 be it a right handed shooter or a left (me)
On a cold winters day out on the edge of the moors clad in fingerless mitts the big breech has it for me !
Same on a 97 but being as the 77 came first, thats the one for me !

[Barryg]

From a hunting perspective, the HW 77 sliding breech is by far the most practical !
I've used BSA RB2's Airsporters, Superstars and two Goldstars, TX200's but I prefer the wide breech 77 be it a right handed shooter or a left (me)
On a cold winters day out on the edge of the moors clad in fingerless mitts the big breech has it for me !
Same on a 97 but being as the 77 came first, thats the one for me !

The only problem with the 77/97 apart from no ABT is this

[Rickenbacker]

You could use a bolt-action, and instead of a spring-piston design, vent high pressure air from a reservoir UNDER the barrel. The reservoir could be topped off when the pressure drops from a scuba-diving tank. The system would be practically recoilless and the scope could be bolted to the breech, maintaining perfect alignment with the barrel.

That's actually a bloody good idea... you'd want to 'sandwich' a transfer port between the barrel and air cylinder, and your loading bolt would need to push the pellet far enough into the bore so that the pellet skirt passed the transfer port 'hole'... if you were really smart, the same 'bolt action' could also cock the trigger, just like a real gun... gets a bit complicated then, because the trigger would need to release some kind of a spring loaded hammer or striker - to knock on an exhaust valve...

Nah, too complicated. It'll never catch on.

[TonyL]

You could use a bolt-action, and instead of a spring-piston design, vent high pressure air from a reservoir UNDER the barrel. The reservoir could be topped off when the pressure drops from a scuba-diving tank. The system would be practically recoilless and the scope could be bolted to the breech, maintaining perfect alignment with the barrel.

That's actually a bloody good idea... you'd want to 'sandwich' a transfer port between the barrel and air cylinder, and your loading bolt would need to push the pellet far enough into the bore so that the pellet skirt passed the transfer port 'hole'... if you were really smart, the same 'bolt action' could also cock the trigger, just like a real gun... gets a bit complicated then, because the trigger would need to release some kind of a spring loaded hammer or striker - to knock on an exhaust valve...

Nah, too complicated. It'll never catch on.

Maybe it'd be worth the two of you properly getting your heads together and presenting this wild and revolutionary idea to one of the manufacturers? You might get escorted out of the building in tight fitting garments and safely and discreetly homed. Or they might just take it seriously and give it a go?

[look no hands]

Maybe it'd be worth the two of you properly getting your heads together and presenting this wild and revolutionary idea to one of the manufacturers? You might get escorted out of the building in tight fitting garments and safely and discreetly homed. Or they might just take it seriously and give it a go?

Or even a better idea, how about someone taking one of those 'sugary sweet' 99 things into Air Arms and explaining to them that this is the goddam way forward

Pete

[TonyL]

Or even a better idea, how about someone taking one of those 'sugary sweet' 99 things into Air Arms and explaining to them that this is the goddam way forward

Pete

That's more like it, Pete.

So, howz about a tweaked '99 clone, 25mm with a slightly longer stroke, the CD trigger and some lovely wood? That'd do it.

Mmmm.....they'd need to have a little look at the cocking lever arrangement, too, to allay any fears.....maybe better to do a 25mm '95 clone, tweaked as above, instead.

[look no hands]

That's more like it, Pete.

So, howz about a tweaked '99 clone, 25mm with a slightly longer stroke, the CD trigger and some lovely wood? That'd do it.

Mmmm.....they'd need to have a little look at the cocking lever arrangement, too, to allay any fears.....maybe better to do a 25mm '95 clone, tweaked as above, instead.

Don't give a monkey's what model they copy (as long as it's not the 35), I just want them to produce a decent break barrel as above.

Pete