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Thread: Talk to me about webley supertarget military contract rifles.

  1. #1
    Unframed Dave's Avatar
    Unframed Dave is online now World pork pie juggling champion three years straight
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    Talk to me about webley supertarget military contract rifles.

    Seen one of these for sale. Compared to a supertarget, the price is considerable.

    Apparently made for the navy, this has the normal peep sight, scope rail, pear shaped loading tap lever, front sight elements stored in a container in the pistol grip, tapered barrel and front mounted Parker hale swivel.

    I can't find anything about this particular model. Condition is lovely and I would dearly like to purchase, just not sure about the price.

    Any clues would be greater appreciated.

    Dave
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    Is this a MK3 rather than an Osprey Supertarget, Dave?

    I've not heard of a military version, although perhaps the Navy purchased them as 'club guns' for 10M target practice / comps?


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    Unframed Dave's Avatar
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    Looked like a mk3 to me Phil. Very much an underlever.

    Dave
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    Dave

    Have a look here:https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery....mk3-air-rifle/

    I'm no Webley Mk 3 expert but I have never heard of a Military sanctioned model 'Navy' or otherwise.

    Webley expert along soon

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    Unframed Dave's Avatar
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    Thanks Mark, was looking for that. It's a lovely rifle, but a significant premium over normal supertarget pricewise.

    Dave
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    No never heard of the MK3 being designated as military, The MK2 was hence the "service" tag , The MK3 supertarget is a nicely made rifle, usually in the region of £250 - £400 depending on condition, Mk2's can fetch very high prices dependent on calibre, condition, Cased, barrel set etc etc , I would look for more provenance of any military connections before spending higher amounts on a MK3, There are some serious collectors on here with far more knowledge than me that may be able to offer more info, I would love to see a pic if it does turn out to be the case .
    Steyr LP10, Steyr LP5,
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unframed Dave View Post
    Looked like a mk3 to me Phil. Very much an underlever.

    Dave
    I figured it was, Dave.

    Interesting that from Mark's link above: The Supertarget with the front sight elements in the pistol grip, has the earlier cylinder without scope rail... while you say the gun you're looking at has the "elements" stock and the scope rail... Crossover model perhaps...? but I'd be a bit worried in case it's a mismatched action vs stock?

    As said, Webley expert needed if you're thinking of paying strong money for it.

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    What makes the vendor think it’s a special military model?

    What’s different about it..
    A man can always use more alcohol, tobacco and firearms.

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    Unframed Dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardH View Post
    What makes the vendor think it’s a special military model?

    What’s different about it..
    Family history.

    Dave
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    Never heard of that. No mention in Chris Thrale's book either.

    There was an ""Army" model Osprey Supertarget, with a Williams peep rear rather than a target diopter, but that doesn't appear to have been anything to do with the actual Army.

    Incidentally, despite its name, there is no evidence I am aware of that the MkII Service was actually used by the military (except maybe a random Home Guard or two in 1940, when anything vaguely weapony was pressed into service).

    I suppose it's possible an individual unit might have privately purchased an air rifle or two - for anything from target practice to pest control to just confiscating something from a squaddie and sticking it in the armoury (detour: in the 80s some RAF units reportedly used Theobens to cull birds on airfields; I have no idea if they had broad arrows or other MoD markings on them, an RAF Theoben with markings/provenance would be a novel collectable).

    Apart from the Theobens, the only airguns I know of in significant use by the British AF are the old, now retired, Cadet Meteor and the current cadet BSA PCP.

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    I too have never heard of a Military association for the Mk.111 Supertarget, or one with a scope rail, which means it hasn't got the name 'Supertarget' on the cylinder.
    I've had a few through my hands including an early prototype model, but none had a scope rail.
    If it's not in Chris's book, I would be very suspicious about it's claimed association.
    Anything is possible with Webley, as, at the time they would configure a rifle to the customer's specification, for a price.
    Are there any pictures available ?

  12. #12
    Unframed Dave's Avatar
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    No pictures I'm afraid. I think at the current price, I'll pass.

    Dave
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer View Post
    Apart from the Theobens, the only airguns I know of in significant use by the British AF are the old, now retired, Cadet Meteor and the current cadet BSA PCP.
    You can add the Anschutz 335 to that. We had about 10 of them in HQ Sqn Arms Store when I was based in Hohne. Although not "adopted" per se. I think most units would get permission to purchase air rifles locally, as the need arose. Certainly at regular army level, they would have been purchased as club guns, rather than being used for any kind of "training".
    I think only the cadets actually use air rifles as "training rifles".
    If it does have a Naval connection, I strongly suspect the MkIII in the original post would have been purchased by a ship or a "ship", for use in a unit shooting club.
    The South of England has 2 good things, the M1 and the A1. Both will take you to Yorkshire.

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    The Royal Navy had accomodation and training ships, usually de-commissioned warships. Perhaps it was one of a batch ordered for use by cadets on board? In which case finding the name of the ship might be a useful investigation.

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    May be a self-made (collected from sec hand parts) rifle
    Dont recollect any STs with scoperails. Only normal mk3s.
    I do think there were early ones without theST name on it?
    Army is only related to the Osprey ST. I think seller relates to this as both the mk3 and Osprey were both sold with 'normal' anschutz sight as well
    If not sure its a ST, I would buy it
    ATB,
    yana

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