Talk to me about webley supertarget military contract rifles.

[Rickenbacker]

Is this a MK3 rather than an Osprey Supertarget, Dave?

I've not heard of a military version, although perhaps the Navy purchased them as 'club guns' for 10M target practice / comps?

[Unframed Dave]

Looked like a mk3 to me Phil. Very much an underlever.

Dave

[Mark D]

Dave

Have a look here:https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery....mk3-air-rifle/

I'm no Webley Mk 3 expert but I have never heard of a Military sanctioned model 'Navy' or otherwise.

Webley expert along soon

[Unframed Dave]

Thanks Mark, was looking for that. It's a lovely rifle, but a significant premium over normal supertarget pricewise.

Dave

[nige346]

No never heard of the MK3 being designated as military, The MK2 was hence the "service" tag , The MK3 supertarget is a nicely made rifle, usually in the region of £250 - £400 depending on condition, Mk2's can fetch very high prices dependent on calibre, condition, Cased, barrel set etc etc , I would look for more provenance of any military connections before spending higher amounts on a MK3, There are some serious collectors on here with far more knowledge than me that may be able to offer more info, I would love to see a pic if it does turn out to be the case .

[harvey_s]

No never heard of the MK3 being designated as military, The MK2 was hence the "service" tag , The MK3 supertarget is a nicely made rifle, usually in the region of £250 - £400 depending on condition, Mk2's can fetch very high prices dependent on calibre, condition, Cased, barrel set etc etc , I would look for more provenance of any military connections before spending higher amounts on a MK3, There are some serious collectors on here with far more knowledge than me that may be able to offer more info, I would love to see a pic if it does turn out to be the case .

Does the MkII actually have any verifiable documented military usage though...?

I thought this was just wishful thinking - after all given the short length of most recruits training why on earth would anyone train them on anything other than their issued weapon?

[Geezer]

[QUOTE=harvey_s;7501244]Does the MkII actually have any verifiable documented military usage though...?/QUOTE]

Not according to Thrale. The earlier Mk1 was offered to, and tested by, the military as a possible trainer, but not adopted.

[Hsing-ee]

There is no way either the Webley Service Mk II or the Mk III would have been bought as trainers by the military. Even with the cheaper ammo they would be far too expensive for recruits to practice with, and too dissimilar to the service rifles. Maybe Armed Forces target shooters might have bought them for their club use, but I really doubt they would have been used for practice. A Webley Service Mk II cost about £500 in real terms at the end of the 1930s. The SMLE in .22 rimfire would be far cheaper.

http://rifleman.org.uk/Enfield_Rifle...RF_Mk.III.html

[Rickenbacker]

Looked like a mk3 to me Phil. Very much an underlever.

Dave

I figured it was, Dave.

Interesting that from Mark's link above: The Supertarget with the front sight elements in the pistol grip, has the earlier cylinder without scope rail... while you say the gun you're looking at has the "elements" stock and the scope rail... Crossover model perhaps...? but I'd be a bit worried in case it's a mismatched action vs stock?

As said, Webley expert needed if you're thinking of paying strong money for it.

[RichardH]

What makes the vendor think it’s a special military model?

What’s different about it..

[Unframed Dave]

What makes the vendor think it’s a special military model?

What’s different about it..

Family history.

Dave

[Geezer]

Never heard of that. No mention in Chris Thrale's book either.

There was an ""Army" model Osprey Supertarget, with a Williams peep rear rather than a target diopter, but that doesn't appear to have been anything to do with the actual Army.

Incidentally, despite its name, there is no evidence I am aware of that the MkII Service was actually used by the military (except maybe a random Home Guard or two in 1940, when anything vaguely weapony was pressed into service).

I suppose it's possible an individual unit might have privately purchased an air rifle or two - for anything from target practice to pest control to just confiscating something from a squaddie and sticking it in the armoury (detour: in the 80s some RAF units reportedly used Theobens to cull birds on airfields; I have no idea if they had broad arrows or other MoD markings on them, an RAF Theoben with markings/provenance would be a novel collectable).

Apart from the Theobens, the only airguns I know of in significant use by the British AF are the old, now retired, Cadet Meteor and the current cadet BSA PCP.

[Troubledshooter]

I too have never heard of a Military association for the Mk.111 Supertarget, or one with a scope rail, which means it hasn't got the name 'Supertarget' on the cylinder.
I've had a few through my hands including an early prototype model, but none had a scope rail.
If it's not in Chris's book, I would be very suspicious about it's claimed association.
Anything is possible with Webley, as, at the time they would configure a rifle to the customer's specification, for a price.
Are there any pictures available ?

[harry mac]

Apart from the Theobens, the only airguns I know of in significant use by the British AF are the old, now retired, Cadet Meteor and the current cadet BSA PCP.

You can add the Anschutz 335 to that. We had about 10 of them in HQ Sqn Arms Store when I was based in Hohne. Although not "adopted" per se. I think most units would get permission to purchase air rifles locally, as the need arose. Certainly at regular army level, they would have been purchased as club guns, rather than being used for any kind of "training".
I think only the cadets actually use air rifles as "training rifles".
If it does have a Naval connection, I strongly suspect the MkIII in the original post would have been purchased by a ship or a "ship", for use in a unit shooting club.

[RichardH]

Family history.

Dave

I'm pretty sure if it has a scope rail its a normal Mk3 with the optional parker hale sights rather than a supertarget

Lovely guns though, to make them at that quality today would be commercial suicide.