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    Guru time

    Quick question gents.....while i have a ticket and no objection to showing it.....When did it become a legal requirement to produce it for the purchase of primmers???
    I can buy everything else without, but now need to produce to buy primmers so it can be logged on my ticket

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    Turnup's Avatar
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    AFAIK there is no requirement to record purchase of primers on your ticket. There is a requirement to verify that you are allowed to purchase primers. According to the current HO guidance:

    5.16 The Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 introduced controls on the purchase and sale of cap-type primers designed for use in metallic ammunition for a firearm, including empty cartridge cases incorporating such a primer. Section 35 of the 2006 Act makes it an offence to sell these items unless the purchaser:
    a) is a registered dealer;
    b) sells by way of any trade or business either primers or empty cartridge cases incorporating primers;
    c) produces a certificate (i.e. the original, not a photocopy) authorising them to possess a firearm of a relevant kind (i.e. a firearm other than a shotgun, an air weapon or a firearm chambered for rim-fire ammunition) or ammunition for such a firearm;
    d) is a duly authorised Crown servant;
    e) shows that they are entitled in law to possess a firearm or ammunition of a relevant kind without a certificate;
    f) produces a certificate (the original, not a photocopy) authorising another person to possess such a firearm, or such ammunition, together with that other personís authority to purchase primers on their behalf; or
    g) shows that they are authorised by regulations to purchase primers. To date no such regulations have been made.
    Section 35 also makes it an offence to buy, or attempt to buy, primers unless the purchaser meets the same criteria.
    The definitions used in section 35 mean that the offences do not apply to the purchase or sale of blank ammunition, shotgun primers or to percussion caps for muzzle-loading firearms.
    True freedom includes the freedom to make mistakes or do foolish things and bear the consequences.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnup View Post
    AFAIK there is no requirement to record purchase of primers on your ticket. There is a requirement to verify that you are allowed to purchase primers. According to the current HO guidance:

    5.16 The Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 introduced controls on the purchase and sale of cap-type primers designed for use in metallic ammunition for a firearm, including empty cartridge cases incorporating such a primer. Section 35 of the 2006 Act makes it an offence to sell these items unless the purchaser:
    a) is a registered dealer;
    b) sells by way of any trade or business either primers or empty cartridge cases incorporating primers;
    c) produces a certificate (i.e. the original, not a photocopy) authorising them to possess a firearm of a relevant kind (i.e. a firearm other than a shotgun, an air weapon or a firearm chambered for rim-fire ammunition) or ammunition for such a firearm;
    d) is a duly authorised Crown servant;
    e) shows that they are entitled in law to possess a firearm or ammunition of a relevant kind without a certificate;
    f) produces a certificate (the original, not a photocopy) authorising another person to possess such a firearm, or such ammunition, together with that other personís authority to purchase primers on their behalf; or
    g) shows that they are authorised by regulations to purchase primers. To date no such regulations have been made.
    Section 35 also makes it an offence to buy, or attempt to buy, primers unless the purchaser meets the same criteria.
    The definitions used in section 35 mean that the offences do not apply to the purchase or sale of blank ammunition, shotgun primers or to percussion caps for muzzle-loading firearms.
    Many thanks for that......

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    Quote Originally Posted by AC all day View Post
    Quick question gents.....while i have a ticket and no objection to showing it.....When did it become a legal requirement to produce it for the purchase of primmers???
    I can buy everything else without, but now need to produce to buy primmers so it can be logged on my ticket
    You must have had a stock to get through 2 renewals!! Or a lax RFD.

    They don't need be recorded on your ticket and there's no need for them to restrict sales of the other parts as without the primer they won't work!
    Thanks for looking

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boydy47 View Post
    You must have had a stock to get through 2 renewals!! Or a lax RFD.

    They don't need be recorded on your ticket and there's no need for them to restrict sales of the other parts as without the primer they won't work!
    I very rarely use them .....but my RFD who knows i have a certificate asked to see it today when i asked to buy heads ( makeing dummy bullets and writing pens) he then went on to tell me "its the law"......whilst i know its
    not for all components i was not sure about primmers...

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    It does seem a bit on an anomaly that fully assembled cartridges are highly restricted yet the components to make your own are less so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aris View Post
    It does seem a bit on an anomaly that fully assembled cartridges are highly restricted yet the components to make your own are less so.
    Prior to 2006 anyone could buy all the necessary bits (including press) to make ammo and not have to show FAC at any time. I always thought that a bit lax so the restriction on primers (being the most difficult component to make your own) makes good sense I think.
    True freedom includes the freedom to make mistakes or do foolish things and bear the consequences.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnup View Post
    Prior to 2006 anyone could buy all the necessary bits (including press) to make ammo and not have to show FAC at any time. I always thought that a bit lax so the restriction on primers (being the most difficult component to make your own) makes good sense I think.
    Ive been asked to show FAC for both primers and powder. Makes perfect sense to be required to do so.

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    I've been asked for an FAC when I bought a box of bullets... just the projectiles, not ammunition..!!

    I didn't have it on me at the time... why would I..?? but as I'd bought powder and primers from this shop before, they had my details on record..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daryll View Post
    I've been asked for an FAC when I bought a box of bullets... just the projectiles, not ammunition..!!

    I didn't have it on me at the time... why would I..?? but as I'd bought powder and primers from this shop before, they had my details on record..
    If this was before they brought expanding back on to section 1 then it would be because they were section 5 and you needed authorisation on your cert to buy them. If recently I'd take your business elsewhere or ask them to get in touch with their FLD to clarify

    In terms of details on record, if you were buying anything restricted (primers / sect 5 projectiles) then they need to see the ticket because for all they know you could have had your ticket revoked in the interim
    Thanks for looking

  11. #11
    Parabuteo is offline My Chrony has bought it a couple of times...
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    Yea, as stated, a reason/authority to purchase came in with the VCR bill, but like most things the authorities and RFDs "Interpret" the laws differently.

    IMHO I have no issue with people being asked to at least have good reason to purchase what is, in effect, the business end of producing a round of ammo that is also the most dangerous/explosive component and easily capable or removing a finger or stuffing a bullet into the landes.

    Nasty bloody things primers
    I'm a maggot in another life you know

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boydy47 View Post
    If this was before they brought expanding back on to section 1 then it would be because they were section 5 and you needed authorisation on your cert to buy them. If recently I'd take your business elsewhere or ask them to get in touch with their FLD to clarify

    In terms of details on record, if you were buying anything restricted (primers / sect 5 projectiles) then they need to see the ticket because for all they know you could have had your ticket revoked in the interim
    These were 155gn SMKs....!!

  13. #13
    Parabuteo is offline My Chrony has bought it a couple of times...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daryll View Post
    These were 155gn SMKs....!!
    I may be wrong, but there may be a chance that the chap selling them could not tell the difference between HP and HPBT. Many just see the hollow point match bullet and assume they are "designed to expand", which they aint as we know.

    They use heavy SMKs in sniper ammunition now which took some clarification but it "Aint designed to expand", so its legal, as well as the Blackhills 5.56x45 262 Mod 1 77grain loads some of the US forces have been using in combat. Its a 77 grain HPBT match round rather than a scabby SS109 62gr round.

    May even have thought you were carrying out a test purchase
    I'm a maggot in another life you know

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