Why not gas-rams

[Muskett]

In the days of Theoben then they had the rudest and most unhelpful telephone receptionist ever. She just didn't like people and must have been found in some Fen dike from the dark ages.
The quality of engineering, wood, and bluing, was better than anyone else's. Mid term the rifles looked fantastic, and I wished they hadn't tried to give them a "modern" look. There was a few other changes that didn't add anything much to the plot.
They were still a high ticket priced rifle compared to most other things out there. The gasram didn't add enough, and he trigger wasn't a record. And the PCP had taken over the world of precision accuracy; easier to shoot too.

People still buy springers because they want to shoot a springer. Air Arms makes fantastic springers. Others good ones, and some cheapies. Just not enough room for the gasram done as premium quality rifle. Theoben should have stuck with PCP's but even there the competition mounted to what we have today. Same reason to buy a gasram. But if its accuracy and state of the art you want then look at PCP's.

The comment about Thatcher and there being little money about is rubbish. In truth BSA and Webley went bust because the market for super cheap had gone. There was loads of money for performance which is why the Venom tuners did business. Weihraugh was making money to the point they could design and deliver the HW77. The Jap scope market went ballistic. There was money for quality, quality boys toys.
Heck carp rods could be bought for £100's of pounds.
It wasn't the case of no money, it was the case of loads of money for better kit.
Today a top PCP is several £k. Scopes too at all prices including over £2K. Lots of people are finding the cash for this stuff not just the super rich.
And it can't all be put down to inflation. In truth today mid range good kit is about the same price as the old stuff, but a whole lot better. A HW35 today has never been so cheap once discounting has been done.
Standards of living have been going up. Machining has got better. Its called progress. If thee is one niggle then it pellets now, they may be very good but wow they have got pricy. You would think they were inkjet cartridges!

[Geezer]

The comment about Thatcher and there being little money about is rubbish. In truth BSA and Webley went bust because the market for super cheap had gone. There was loads of money for performance which is why the Venom tuners did business. Weihraugh was making money to the point they could design and deliver the HW77. The Jap scope market went ballistic. There was money for quality, quality boys toy

Careful, there, old chap. I was not making a political point.

The point I was making us that before the mid-80s economic boom, a lot of people did not have much disposable income, especially in the traditional manufacturing-based heartlands of the UK airgun trade, like the Midlands. 1982 was still a pretty challenging time for lots of people (think coal miners or steel workers), and the forty or fifty quid (think £125,now) you saved buying an HW80 compared to to a Theoben mattered. Of course, the enthusiasts found the money. But enthusiasts who will pay for quality are about 1% of the market, despite their presence in magazines and on forums.

BSA went bust (first time, 1973 I think) mostly because their motorcycle business collapsed under Japanese competition in the sixties. Not helped by the loss over time of MoD contracts to make the L1A1 SLR. And their 1950s failure to make a credible GPMG (their belt-feld Bren was awful, compared to the FN MAG), and losing the SMG competition to Sterling. Not to mention the P28 rifle, which, in trials, either did not work at all or blew up. Their business contracted, and became unviable before the airgun renaissance of the late 70s and early 80s. Which they also failed to see and respond to well.

Webley hung on till 2005, but died slowly over decades. The rot set in many years before when the Government basically nicked the Mk4 .380" revolver design and made it at Enfield.

Apart from a WW2 blip, both companies were in long-term decline. Neither seems to have had the leadership able to reverse the decline.

Basically, both companies saw themselves as potential big-league national and international players and discovered they were heading for the third-division and could not adapt quickly enough to survive. As Trump would say, SAD!

[mrto]

I like them......,but then maybe I don't really that much......,but I do have five or so of them!

Hmmm! I find them easy to be more than a little ambivalent about.....

[look no hands]

Because they don't make very good springers

Pete

[Muskett]

Gerzer, a lot of what you say is true. I'm a little protective of marmite Thatcher, and it was testing times for many with the amount of changes going on. However, she can't be blamed for the decline of Webley and BSA. That they did themselves, well the British Gun Trade as a whole.
The Webley Vulcan MKI was a great boys rifle and taught me how to deal with triggers that need to be stamped on! It was half the price of a FWB Sport. And yes, Theobens were eye wateringly expensive. (I have never bought a new one, nor most of my air rifles.)

Beretta is the gun goliath that it is because the US Army bought its 92F 9mm handgun. Just takes one good contract, but you need the right product first.