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Thread: Why I am Beginning To Change My Mind About Sub12 Hunting

  1. #61
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    A caveat I like to spout is that far too many people, men, think that they have a automatic ability, a birth right, to be Davy Crocket, Jim Bowie, and Robin Hood all rolled up in one. Buy the kit and instant success
    Shooting and Hunting is a learnt skill. It takes practice and perseverance to gain those skills. Do enough and success will come, and its always helpful if you can find some good guidance. Get enough experience under your belt and one thing is for sure: the more practiced and the closer you can get the more likely to fill the bag and have that successful outcome.

    There is nothing wrong in taking longer shots as we have the equipment to deliver them, but to take them requires considerable preparation and testing. Rocking up and chancing it is irresponsible as its leaving it to chance. Put the work in then amazing ranges can be achieved but only once the confidence is such that little has been left to chance. I generally use as a rule, whatever I can achieve distance wise on paper then take a 1/3 off for the field; some times its 1/2. But it really all depends on all the parts coming together into one: the equipment, the marksmanship, the testing and fine tuning, the regular practice and testing, and then a good dollop of restraint. Prove it and then prove it again on paper first. It needs to be repeatable in the field, and then take 1/3rd off, to get the level of certainty that ensure we are confident we have done our very best. Respect for ones quarry demands that. Add to all that the conditions on the day.
    What shots I can pull off when fully prepared and in tune from a rigours practice regime, to what I can do when when out of practice, rusty, and not fully confident in the whole combination, is worlds apart.

    Just saying.
    Everyone finds their own way, its their call if they pull the trigger or not at the end of the day. A good sportsman leaves little to chance.

  2. #62
    secretagentmole Guest
    When I started airgun shooting again after a 25 year lay off I practised at a range, we put hours in knocking the knock downs down, punching paper, it was only after many months of doing that I started looking for a permission. The first few trips to the permission were more observational than hunting (though I did despatch a couple of myxie victims). Roost shooting learnt by using the branches of an old dead tree for practise.

    Soon I was a capable hunter who was feeding not only his family, but a few neighbours as well (to the extent that one old girl would ask when the next pigeon pie was coming, in fact I promised her one and the day after I delivered it - used to send it round oven ready, she could not cook that well, been like it all her life - the family decided to take her out for a meal at which point she told them to bugger off as it was pigeon pie night).

    I hunt on farm and paddock land so I am after pests, land owner happy, me happy, neighbours happy.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barryg View Post
    Terry what would you say the odds are of a animal keeping still while someone places their shot, about 50 50?
    No, way higher than that, in my 50-plus years of experience, Barry.

    I know for a fact that 50% of the success I've had is NOT down to luck. I've trained hard and studied harder for that success, mate. Luck plays a part in pretty much everything we do, but nothing like to the degree you're claiming.
    If you don't know enough to judge - don't judge

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry D View Post
    No, way higher than that, in my 50-plus years of experience, Barry.

    I know for a fact that 50% of the success I've had is NOT down to luck. I've trained hard and studied harder for that success, mate. Luck plays a part in pretty much everything we do, but nothing like to the degree you're claiming.
    And experience comes into play too aswell as education. I have been shooting for 41 years now and was taught by an old game keeper (Ted R.I.P) I still won't chance a shot even though the knowledge and confidence is there, i need to be as sure as I can be because there is always another opportunity to get it right. Like the rest of us I still miss but better than a dirty shot!!!! I've heard it all over the years, the 100yrd rabbit taken down with a BSA Meteor
    John Darling JD (1946-2004) was my inspiration to be the best i can and enjoy the sport i love. R.I.P
    A dedicated HW80 Fanatic and owner since 1986 to present.

  5. #65
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    When you take on board the fact that a 1 mph side wind - which you can barely even feel - will make your pellet drift half an inch at 50 yards, and that's half your kill zone, you start to realise the limitations in anything but ideal conditions.
    www.shebbearshooters.co.uk. Ask for Rich and try the coffee

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    When you take on board the fact that a 1 mph side wind - which you can barely even feel - will make your pellet drift half an inch at 50 yards, and that's half your kill zone, you start to realise the limitations in anything but ideal conditions.
    And this is but one of the situations where experience does come into play.
    An experienced shot will be able to compensate for any wind and decide whether the shot should indeed be taken at all.
    B.A.S.C. member

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muskett View Post
    A caveat I like to spout is that far too many people, men, think that they have a automatic ability, a birth right, to be Davy Crocket, Jim Bowie, and Robin Hood all rolled up in one. Buy the kit and instant success
    Shooting and Hunting is a learnt skill. It takes practice and perseverance to gain those skills. Do enough and success will come, and its always helpful if you can find some good guidance. Get enough experience under your belt and one thing is for sure: the more practiced and the closer you can get the more likely to fill the bag and have that successful outcome.

    There is nothing wrong in taking longer shots as we have the equipment to deliver them, but to take them requires considerable preparation and testing. Rocking up and chancing it is irresponsible as its leaving it to chance. Put the work in then amazing ranges can be achieved but only once the confidence is such that little has been left to chance. I generally use as a rule, whatever I can achieve distance wise on paper then take a 1/3 off for the field; some times its 1/2. But it really all depends on all the parts coming together into one: the equipment, the marksmanship, the testing and fine tuning, the regular practice and testing, and then a good dollop of restraint. Prove it and then prove it again on paper first. It needs to be repeatable in the field, and then take 1/3rd off, to get the level of certainty that ensure we are confident we have done our very best. Respect for ones quarry demands that. Add to all that the conditions on the day.
    What shots I can pull off when fully prepared and in tune from a rigours practice regime, to what I can do when when out of practice, rusty, and not fully confident in the whole combination, is worlds apart.

    Just saying.
    Everyone finds their own way, its their call if they pull the trigger or not at the end of the day. A good sportsman leaves little to chance.
    100% spot on.

    There's no doubt that air rifles are capable of clean kills on quarry at ranges greater than 40 yards.
    The trick is the shooter being able to harness that capability to deliver a clean kill. This comes from experience gained over the years. I'm actually a far better shot now, in my 50's than I was 25 years ago.

    When I lose the ability to deliver clean kills in the field, I'll then restrict my shooting to paper and knockdown targets. I certainly won't be looking for "powder" and "knockdown power" to compensate for any loss in ability.
    B.A.S.C. member

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by robs5230 View Post
    And this is but one of the situations where experience does come into play.
    An experienced shot will be able to compensate for any wind and decide whether the shot should indeed be taken at all.
    Maybe not Rob, if we're talking of a 1mph wind, i challenge anyone to be able to detect that. Also take into account that whatever wind is felt by the shooter won't necessarily be the same 20 yards out.

    Let's not allow this to spiral into a sub 12ftlb long range hunting thread as it's been unequivocally proven to be irresponsible.
    Chairman Emley Moor F.T.C. 2023 - Misfits champ, HFT extreme champ, NEFTA hunter champ, Midlands Hunter champ, UKAHFT champ.
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  9. #69
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    If you are a top shot, FT or one of the other disciplines, and can hit paper targets out to 60m, then 1/3 is 40m in the field. Thats 15m beyond the farmyard 25m. 40m is long enough when all other factors are taken into account.
    With 12ft/lbs air rifles I stick with shooting within the farmyard though I do have a bedroom window shoot into my garden that is up to 33m (I have a bedroom rifle just for that; I have a lot of rabbits getting into my garden, and yes my wife does make comments). But thats my limit.
    Know your kit, know your limits, your call. Be a sportsman not a chancer.

    For the rest, open farmland, its rimfires and centrefires for me. And they are limited in the same way.

  10. #70
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    Its amazing how some of you experienced hunters can predict the wind speed both where you are and at the target and predict when a animal is going to keep still and not be startled by surrounding noises and not call it luck, it must be nice to have such a high opinion of yourself

  11. #71
    secretagentmole Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Barryg View Post
    Its amazing how some of you experienced hunters can predict the wind speed both where you are and at the target and predict when a animal is going to keep still and not be startled by surrounding noises and not call it luck, it must be nice to have such a high opinion of yourself
    It must be nice to have such a condescending attitude to other people too. We have taken the time and trouble to explain how we get the shots. Please remember a sudden noise will also alert the shooter, who will decide not to take the shot until the prey is settled again. It can be frustrating when you have a fool with a 12 bore letting loose at shadows a few fields away, but patience is a virtue.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barryg View Post
    Its amazing how some of you experienced hunters can predict the wind speed both where you are and at the target and predict when a animal is going to keep still and not be startled by surrounding noises and not call it luck, it must be nice to have such a high opinion of yourself
    Genuine question Barry - Do you hunt? If so, what do you use?

    All of the above.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonjon79 View Post
    Genuine question Barry - Do you hunt? If so, what do you use?
    I was a hunter but not now especially after watching Richard Dawkins explaining that animals could feel more pain than humans. For me airgunning is for fun and enjoyment. I didn't think 11 ft/lb was enough and I still don't I think hunters should be looking at 17 plus ft/lb but even then a clean kill is part luck.
    secretagentmole says that I have a condescending attitude but I am the opposite I don't think that I am superior enough to make a clean kill every time without luck there are just to many variables and to me it looks the same for everyone else even though skill and experience has some advantages.

  14. #74
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    Genuine question Barry - Do you own a Rottweiler?

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muskett View Post
    Genuine question Barry - Do you own a Rottweiler?
    Yes

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