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Thread: AirArms CD and HW Rekord Trigger Units Interchangeability

  1. #1
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    AirArms CD and HW Rekord Trigger Units Interchangeability

    Following a thread on another forum I've been receiving PMs about the above which I couldn't fully answer via PM as I can only post pictures on open forum --- so here goes.

    Both units have there locating pins at exactly the same spacing, this is no surprise at I'm told Ken Turner used to build the Mach one triggers for Venom which the CD is closely based on, note that the standard Weihrauch blade sits @ 10mm forward of TX's :-

    image.jpg




    Rekord into TX

    To fit a Rekord unit into a TX you need to alter the top sear to fit the latch rod by grinding a U shaped notch in the sear :-

    image.jpeg


    And relieving the back of the sear for the mushroomed head :-

    image.jpeg





    CD into Weihrauch

    Now for this I used a TX rod in a custom made rotating piston in my 77 :-

    image.jpg


    To get the CD in you have to relieve the back block with a Dremmel to get clearance for the cassette rivets and widen the slot a little :-

    image.jpg



    There you go, to get the safety to work on the CD triggered 77 I had to take a touch off the top sear.

    So to answer your question, Rob, to put a CD into an Old School 85 you'd need an 85 piston fitted with a TX rod (you could shorten the stroke at this point) and simply relieve the back block to take the CD unit.




    All the best Mick

  2. #2
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    So the trigger swap from HW to CD would also set back the blade by 10mm?

    Cool to know
    A man can always use more alcohol, tobacco and firearms.

  3. #3
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    Rich, you can also drop a CD trigger blade straight into a Rekord unit (just needs a couple of shims to take out unnecessary play). I posted this on one of the Facebook groups a few months back - they’re half the price of a Rowan setback blade.
    You could even fit one of the adjustable Rowan TX blades if you were feeling flush.
    Put on heading 270, assume attack formation

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardH View Post
    So the trigger swap from HW to CD would also set back the blade by 10mm?

    Cool to know
    Correct, Richard.

    I also fitted the HW77 action shown into a HW97 stock which also reduces the reach to trigger over the standard 77 so it fits my stubby little fingers nicely.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig-P View Post
    Rich, you can also drop a CD trigger blade straight into a Rekord unit (just needs a couple of shims to take out unnecessary play). I posted this on one of the Facebook groups a few months back - they’re half the price of a Rowan setback blade.
    You could even fit one of the adjustable Rowan TX blades if you were feeling flush.


    Hi Craig

    I'm told that all the Sears out of a TX CD unit will drop into a Venom Mach1 case but I've not tried a TX blade in a Rekord.
    My TX/LGU/77 hybrid has a custom trigger blade in it which I think is a copy of a Mach1 blade, this is the nicest trigger setup I have --- I think these blades are available from V-Mach as the custom TX200 blade but I can't find any info on them.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by T 20 View Post
    Following a thread on another forum I've been receiving PMs about the above which I couldn't fully answer via PM as I can only post pictures on open forum --- so here goes.

    Both units have there locating pins at exactly the same spacing, this is no surprise at I'm told Ken Turner used to build the Mach one triggers for Venom which the CD is closely based on, note that the standard Weihrauch blade sits @ 10mm forward of TX's :-



    CD into Weihrauch

    Now for this I used a TX rod in a custom made rotating piston in my 77 :-

    image.jpg


    To get the CD in you have to relieve the back block with a Dremmel to get clearance for the cassette rivets and widen the slot a little :-

    image.jpg



    There you go, to get the safety to work on the CD triggered 77 I had to take a touch off the top sear.

    So to answer your question, Rob, to put a CD into an Old School 85 you'd need an 85 piston fitted with a TX rod (you could shorten the stroke at this point) and simply relieve the back block to take the CD unit.




    All the best Mick
    Nice one Mick thanks.
    Did you relieve the HW rear block with hand tools ? Could you give / do you have details of measurements needed or is it a case of just trial and error until the CD fits ?
    2 major problems now..
    Firstly getting the piston altered to have a TX latch rod and secondly getting hold of the quite elusive CD trigger unit.
    B.A.S.C. member

  7. #7
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    CD Trigger

    Both units have there locating pins at exactly the same spacing, this is no surprise at I'm told Ken Turner used to build the Mach one triggers for Venom which the CD is closely based on,

    As above. Ken Turner did not build the Mach 1 triggers. The company he worked for made the parts for them following venom contacting them to produce the parts which were then sent to Ivan and Dave to build. The CD is trigger in the MK1 tx200's is a copy of the Mach 1 trigger.
    Mach 1.5

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mach 1.5 View Post
    Both units have there locating pins at exactly the same spacing, this is no surprise at I'm told Ken Turner used to build the Mach one triggers for Venom which the CD is closely based on,

    As above. Ken Turner did not build the Mach 1 triggers. The company he worked for made the parts for them following venom contacting them to produce the parts which were then sent to Ivan and Dave to build. The CD is trigger in the MK1 tx200's is a copy of the Mach 1 trigger.
    Mach 1.5
    There are 2 versions of the AA/CD unit for the MarkI's as well. The early ones were screwed together instead of the rivets, like we now have. The sears also look a little different as well as the trigger blade. I have a CD unit that uses the screws, but it has the current blade. I wish I could find the earlier blade, but it works just fine. I modified a blade to change the screw angles and it made a positive, but very slight difference for the better.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mach 1.5 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by T 20
    Both units have there locating pins at exactly the same spacing, this is no surprise at I'm told Ken Turner used to build the Mach one triggers for Venom which the CD is closely based on,
    As above. Ken Turner did not build the Mach 1 triggers. The company he worked for made the parts for them following venom contacting them to produce the parts which were then sent to Ivan and Dave to build. The CD is trigger in the MK1 tx200's is a copy of the Mach 1 trigger.
    Mach 1.5
    Cheers Paul, I'm always happy to be corrected by someone more knowledgeable than me.

    BTW, I'm loving that old school HW50 I bought off you.




    All the best Mick

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by robs5230 View Post
    Nice one Mick thanks.
    Did you relieve the HW rear block with hand tools ? Could you give / do you have details of measurements needed or is it a case of just trial and error until the CD fits ?
    2 major problems now..
    Firstly getting the piston altered to have a TX latch rod and secondly getting hold of the quite elusive CD trigger unit.
    Hi Rob

    I just pushed the CD into the back block until the rivets touched, then I lined the cassette up with the pin holes and marked where to relieve for the rivets.
    To line the cassette fore and aft, I put pins in the cassette and back block, then with the back block upside down on a flat surface I lined them up with a set square.
    I relieved for the pins and slightly opened out the slot using a dremmel and a decent flat file --- a bit time consuming but easy enough to do.

    One thing I forgot to mention in my opening post was the fact that the TX piston rod is a bigger OD to the Weihrauch piston rod, so you have to open the spring guide and back block hole IDs to match.

    To get your piston altered I'd try NickG as he makes his own pistons and rods, for the CD it's a matter of waiting for a second hand one to come up, or you could try Julian Bond for a new one.




    All the best Mick

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by T 20 View Post
    Hi Craig

    I'm told that all the Sears out of a TX CD unit will drop into a Venom Mach1 case but I've not tried a TX blade in a Rekord.
    My TX/LGU/77 hybrid has a custom trigger blade in it which I think is a copy of a Mach1 blade, this is the nicest trigger setup I have --- I think these blades are available from V-Mach as the custom TX200 blade but I can't find any info on them.
    Hi mate, I contacted Steve about a TX blade a while back but I’ve since left the company that I emailed from so I’ll be struggling to get an answer.
    The adjustment screws in the TX blade when fitted to a Rekord unit, offer the whole unit a load more adjustability. I’ve got one on a HW95 and it’s lovely.
    Put on heading 270, assume attack formation

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig-P View Post
    Hi mate, I contacted Steve about a TX blade a while back but I’ve since left the company that I emailed from so I’ll be struggling to get an answer.
    The adjustment screws in the TX blade when fitted to a Rekord unit, offer the whole unit a load more adjustability. I’ve got one on a HW95 and it’s lovely.
    Hi Craig

    You just reminded me that I'd brought a couple of trigger blades into the house to look at. :-

    image.jpg

    Without measuring, the TX blade looks to have a bigger pivot pin hole, but I suppose the hole in the cassette can be reamed out to match a TX pin.



    All the best Mick

  13. #13
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    Mick,

    Many thanks for this most useful post

    Have fun & a good weekend

    Best regards

    Russ

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by T 20 View Post
    Hi Craig

    You just reminded me that I'd brought a couple of trigger blades into the house to look at. :-

    image.jpg

    Without measuring, the TX blade looks to have a bigger pivot pin hole, but I suppose the hole in the cassette can be reamed out to match a TX pin.



    All the best Mick
    I find fitting a brass rod into the hole and then re drilling for pin size is a better option, the smaller the pin diameter the lower the friction.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artfull-Bodger View Post
    the smaller the pin diameter the lower the friction.
    Ah, unfortunately it doesn't work like that.

    You would expect the smaller surface area of the smaller pin to give a lower frictional loss but that's not the case.

    The standard formula for working out the coefficient of friction does not include surface area :-

    image.png

    U = the coefficient of friction between the two materials.

    image.png
    Last edited by T 20; 23-06-2018 at 03:17 PM.

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