Reply With QuoteI'm no expert, but surely they could give you the bottle back empty? Otherwise it sounds like whatever place you take the bottle to have authority to say/do/charge whatever they want, surely can't be right?
Registered User
I hope the point I'm trying to make here is clear because it's easy to misunderstand what my real concerns are without the 'safety' smokescreen smothering the topic but here goes...
I have a small 3 litre 300 bar Bisley stumpy bottle. I bought brand-new and have only used it as a backup supply to a 12 litre Faber. In fact, the bottle had only ever been filled twice, once when new and then topped up about 18 months ago and both times at the dive centre mentioned below (so clean / dry air). The 3 litre Bisley has just reached the end of it's 5 years and so I dropped it off at a well known local dive centre for hydrostatic test, valve test, service and fill. When I dropped it off, a nice chap (one of the testers) seemed to have all the time in the world to explain all the horrors he'd seen and heard about involving dive bottle misuse and unsafe practices and the horrific results.
After about 15 mins (yes 15 minutes), he finished off by saying that should there be any problems with the bottle then they were not allowed to hand it back for obvious reasons, i.e. unsafe, potential bomb etc. unless all necessary work / parts replacements were agreed to and carried out. I pointed out that the bottle had seen very little use and that on the very rare occasions of it being used, I always attached only ever attached the whip using hand pressure as I found this was always sufficient enough.
A week goes by and while at work, I receive a voicemail from the dive / test centre. Apparently, the bottle was fine but the valve failed. I didn't fully understand why it had failed but they mentioned a 'no go gauge' turning four times instead of only two. I called them the next morning and asked for them to clarify the problem and they put me through to the tester. He explained that the threads that you screw in the whip failed the 'Go - No Go' gauge test. A replacement valve would be an additional £61.00 bringing the total cost of certification to just over £100.00.
I asked his opinion on what causes the treads to fail the test and he immediately mentioned over tightening as the main cause in most cases. I again explained that I only ever used hand pressure to attached / tighten the whip to he valve and his response was that the threads are only brass (soft) and that the threads may well have been overtightened previous to my ownership. I explained I had owned the bottle from new and so I could not be the case. The tester then said that it may have been faulty from new and that Bisley import these bottles (not sure what significance this has).
I know of another dive / test centre local to me and I thought it would be worth getting a second opinion, so I asked if I could collect the bottle and I was informed that this was not allowed and that if the necessary replacements were not authorised they would have to scrap the bottle and valve.
Now call me cynical but how on earth are you supposed to know that these 'necessary' parts are really needed and if the threads are faulty how can you avoid this type of wear given what little and very light use the bottle has had. If the threads were faulty when new, then how did it pass initially?
It may be that the threads have failed and that the new valve is needed but I can't help but feel they know there's nothing you can do but pay or else!
Thoughts anyone?
Registered User
I'm no expert, but surely they could give you the bottle back empty? Otherwise it sounds like whatever place you take the bottle to have authority to say/do/charge whatever they want, surely can't be right?
Registered User
Tbh I don't understand why they can't hand it back as it is empty and can't legally be filled , just tell them you want to take it for a second opinion , or get them to show you and explain the problem
"FETCH IT THEN!!!!"
If they can't give it back to you then get them to send it to the other place for second opinion!! I'm just going to look on the Google to see what I can find about the law surrounding tank testing..
"corners should be round"Theo Evo .22/.177 - Meopta 6x42, DS huntsman classic .20 vortex razor LH 3-15x42 under supervised boingrati tuning by Tony L & Tinbum, HW77 forest green - Nikon prostaff 2-7x32 plex.
"FETCH IT THEN!!!!"
Firstly:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...mOdGcACk8smCNQ
This only mentions it being filled.. no requirement for it to be withheld...
"corners should be round"
Registered User
That was my view but they said that it wouldn't stop someone with a home compressor filling it.Originally Posted by cjsid
Stop that pigeon now!
BSA Super10 addict, other BSA's inc GoldstarSE, Original (Diana) Mod75's, Diana Mod5, HW80's, SAM 11K... All sorted!
Registered User
I'm going to call them again and ask them to point me in the direction of a confirmed source of information that states they are within their rights to withhold the bottle.
"FETCH IT THEN!!!!"
That then is no longer there responsibility... If they condemn the bottle, stamp it with xxx's then it shouldn't matter. The bottle regulations says that it covers use of hp air at "work" not at home. Your involvement with the at "work" bit is when you take it to be filled at there "work". Looks like Rancidtom has the info for complaints & appeals against them. I've had a speedy look through the net & the only reference to this I can find is on a testers site where they state (in my own words) "we will destroy failed bottles to co.ply with HSE regulations" now I can't find any HSE regulations that state anything other than the workplace should have all bottles tested, and that it's the responsibility of the people in the business to do this. Not "all bottles need to be destroyed".
It's interesting how legislation can be interpreted, yes destroying the bottle satisfies HSE requirement but it's not the businesses responsibility to police the public. All they need to do is make sure it is clear that it has failed and return the bottle empty with the valve out as then you are responsible for putting it back in should you choose to.
Hope this helps
"corners should be round"
Registered User
I've just contacted the other local test centre hoping to find out if they withhold bottles if they fail but unfortunately, the guy's gone in for a heart bypass and so won't be open for business until August.
"FETCH IT THEN!!!!"
I'd also politely inform them that even though it may be there policy they could be breaking the law by damaging property that doesn't belong to them.
The other thing that is reliant here is if you have signed a piece of paper waiving your rights or giving them permission to withhold the bottle under there policy?
"corners should be round"
"FETCH IT THEN!!!!"
Try calling any other one on the net... If another business can give you back the bottle then it means it's not law...
"corners should be round"
Registered User
Now then... I did sign a document to which they added details of what work was to performed i.e test etc. It could well be that it included some disclaimer to that effect.. Damn! I should have asked for a copy.
Off to work now so will have to call them tomorrow.
"FETCH IT THEN!!!!"
Ok.. a shame if it does contain a disclaimer but if it does you should still be able to get an independent 2nd opinion. This means you should be able to get them to send it to another tester of your choice to check it out. Take a look at the complaints information that rancid Tom has posted... I reckon if you contact there governing body and ask for some advice, then wave the forms above at the bottle testing company, they would be hard pushed to refuse it being sent somewhere else
They "appear" to be throwing the book at you so throw the library back at them!!
"corners should be round"
Gildenburgh???
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