BSA 1926/36 underlever question please.

[Geoff555]

Good morning, I have a feeling that what I am about to ask may be like asking 'how long is a piece of string'. The springs poke out of the cylinders by about 1" no more. I can almost screw on the end plugs by hand but use a compressor not wishing to damage the threads. (a bit wibley woobley by hand.).
Wrists and shoulder joints are not too good and I am finding it a struggle to cock them. How hard should it be? New leather washers not run in yet and they are producing in between 6 and 7 ft-lbs. Could they be over sprung?
Your thoughts highly valued.
Thank you.
Cheers.
Geoff.

[isobar]

about an inch spring sticking out sounds about right,you would normally not need a spring compressor but a firm downward push against a carpeted floor makes it fairly easy.7flb is probably ok for a new washer as you say it is not run in.one thing i would say is that the newly sealed piston should be easy to push down the tube by hand and not over tight.they are fairly firm to cock and i like to support the joint between stock and action with my hand. ATB

[Geoff555]

Hello isobar, many thanks for your reply, I will chase the seal being too tight as it may well be so. I will also try cocking it like you have suggested, it may be easier.
Thank you.Cheers.
Geoff.

[ggggr]

Hello isobar, many thanks for your reply, I will chase the seal being too tight as it may well be so. I will also try cocking it like you have suggested, it may be easier.
Thank you.Cheers.
Geoff.

How about removing the seal and putting a spacer the same thickness as it in the piston and try cocking it then to see if it is easier (ie no seal friction at all)? If it is hard to cock at that and there is nothing obviously tight or rubbing, then ask on here about a different spring. I find with "plinkers" that soft springs often give a nice lazy cycle and are very easy to cock and shoot. You also have the advantage of less stress on the sear and an easier trigger pull.

[Geoff555]

Hello ggggr what a jolly good idea. I have 3. Two are of reasonable condition and 1 is a real bitza, Webley Ospray tap etc. so experimenting with this one is OK.
I don't want super power and an unstressed, soft plinker is all that is required.
OK then I will ask chaps, what spring is suggested please?
I may well start with removing a coil or so.
Thank you.
Geoff.

[nige346]

My CS settled at a shade over 8ft lb when the seal had bedded in, I could go for more power but it's superbly accurate, nice to cock and little recoil, as already mentioned the seals need sizing when new and should slide down the compression tube with very little resistance, never had to use a compressor on any of my BSA's, At the end of the day no one is likely to hunt with one of these now so accuracy and a nice action are far more important than power. Supporting at the butt/action joint will prevent the wood cracking along the pin location, very common on these rifles.

[Geoff555]

Hi, thank you all, I have come to the conclusion that the seal could well be part of the problem. Question please - the skirt of the seal as supplied is much deeper than the old one ( that had turned into a 'ragged' piece of string, well that is what it looked like.) and protrudes foreword by about 3/16" from the face of the piston. It appears that this has led to a seal that has squashed and bulged outwards, or tried to, and has tightened up. Should I trim this back to be just proud of the piston face?
I will size it again.
The 'leather' is a curious, to me, grey colour and very hard. I had a spare one that I soaked in oil for a couple of weeks in an attempt to soften it and it appeared to be impervious and remained hard!!.
Gentlemen your help is much appreciated.
Geoff.

[nige346]

Hi

The seal should sit proud when new but be a sliding fit into the compression tube, Normally I would size to the cylinder in a lathe (this can be done with a drill and some coarse emery paper, don't use sandpaper as it will leave grit in the leather) Sizing is easier before treating the leather with oil, before fitting soak up as much of the remaining neatsfoot and drop the piston and new seal in, it should slide down with no or very little resistance a smear of SM50 always helps, fit the spring and leave for 24hrs with the seal under spring pressure before cocking/firing, this will form the seal to the cylinder. when you start using the front protruding lip will allow the the seal to form, it would normally take anywhere between 100 - a tin of pellets to settle,

The seal still being hard after treating is a concern, the leather would normally soften hence the reason for sizing before treating. are you sure it's leather, this would normally be light-mid brown and darkens upon treating in the neatsfoot.

I'm sure may will have other tried and tested method that work just as well but this is the way I was always taught and have used for many years, never had an issue yet,

[Geoff555]

Hello nige346. Well that has given me something to think about. The 'leather' washer was bought as a kit,complete. Screw, washer etc. The original screw/washer being smashed.
I did wonder about the leather as it was a lightish grey and very hard, after soaking it for a couple of weeks then I wiped it off and there was no evidence of the oil having soaked into the surface at all. The outside looked as if it was polished and the inside almost looked as if it was woven. Synthetic leather??
Thank you will start again. Pity I have 3.
Cheers.
Geoff.
Just to say it was sold by a well known supplier and was listed as Leather. From memory it was something like £20.00
Geoff.

[crowbar]

You can get five garden pump (sprayer) washer off the bay for about £12 posted .

I thought the fit of a leather washer was governed by the size of the filler washer in the cup .
If the diameter of this washer is reduced then the leather washer will close up around said washer .

[Lakey]

It almost certainly IS leather. They will have used thick leather and pressed it into a mould wet, then allowed it to dry. The polished outer surface will be the skin side, and the "woven" looking side will be the fiberous inner surface. If you want the leather soft and flexible, you need to work it with your hands after soaking it in neatsfoot. I would sand the hard seal to fit, then soak, then work, work to make the leather supple. You can also fit the seal hard, and let repeated use of the gun, eventually soften the leather, but that take 10 times longer.

[Geoff555]

Hello Lakey, thank you. I don't think, that to be honest, I am strong enough to move the leather. I did try with the spare one and the only way I could shift it was to actually use a vice.
Thank you again, I will try the various options.
Cheers.
Geoff.

[Lakey]

Hello Lakey, thank you. I don't think, that to be honest, I am strong enough to move the leather. I did try with the spare one and the only way I could shift it was to actually use a vice.
Thank you again, I will try the various options.
Cheers.
Geoff.

Yes, I remember it well. The last one I did, I used two pairs of pliers, to start the process off. Once you start to "break" the initial moulded shape of the washer, it gets a lot easier quite quickly.

But, like I say, you can fit the sliding dry(ish) washer into the gun, and then allow the air pressure to mould the washer into shape. Most people do this, but it does take a time to get the piston washer to maximum efficiency. Leather washers in these guns are supposed to operate in a soft and supply state, lubricated by small amounts of oil. Its that oil that gives the little wisp of smoke ( and that gorgeous smell) on firing.

Good luck with bringing the gun back to life.....


Lakey

[nige346]

If it was one of the 2 big spares sellers then yes it will be leather, both are reputable dealers who I have purchased from on may occasions, the "polished" side will simple be where it has been compressed into the mold or treated leather was used either way makes no odds, you'll remove the polished surface when sizing which will also help it saturate in the oil,, If using neats foot try gently warming it in hot water, this will thin the oil and allow it to penetrate easier,

Hello nige346. Well that has given me something to think about. The 'leather' washer was bought as a kit,complete. Screw, washer etc. The original screw/washer being smashed.
I did wonder about the leather as it was a lightish grey and very hard, after soaking it for a couple of weeks then I wiped it off and there was no evidence of the oil having soaked into the surface at all. The outside looked as if it was polished and the inside almost looked as if it was woven. Synthetic leather??
Thank you will start again. Pity I have 3.
Cheers.
Geoff.
Just to say it was sold by a well known supplier and was listed as Leather. From memory it was something like £20.00
Geoff.

[nige346]

You can get five garden pump (sprayer) washer off the bay for about £12 posted .

I thought the fit of a leather washer was governed by the size of the filler washer in the cup .
If the diameter of this washer is reduced then the leather washer will close up around said washer .

yep, that works as well, I have done this to use spare seals I have that were not actually made to fit a particular gun and are larger than needed but final sizing I do by reducing the "closed" diameter to a sliding fit, As mentioned there are probably various different ways favoured by individuals that will do the same job, every gunsmith has his own tricks of the trade methods.