Post-War Webley Senior with slim Pre-War trigger?

[45flint]

I just bought an example of this but it has not arrived. I assume this was Webley using the Pre-War triggers up before they changed to the larger “crescent”? trigger? Interesting I see no example of this in the Bruce book nor in the Vintage Gallery. Curious how common they are? It has the longer barrel knurling and the unmarked rear plug. Has to be a 1940’s Pistol? Been looking for a slant grip Senior for my collection, was really trying for a Stoeger Pre-War but I couldn’t resist this one, given that it appeared to be excellent condition. Love the older style trigger matching my Straight Grip Senior.

[Josie & John]

I just bought an example of this but it has not arrived. I assume this was Webley using the Pre-War triggers up before they changed to the larger “crescent”? trigger? Interesting I see no example of this in the Bruce book nor in the Vintage Gallery. Curious how common they are? It has the longer barrel knurling and the unmarked rear plug. Has to be a 1940’s Pistol? Been looking for a slant grip Senior for my collection, was really trying for a Stoeger Pre-War but I couldn’t resist this one, given that it appeared to be excellent condition. Love the older style trigger matching my Straight Grip Senior.

There are quite a few 'transitional' variants made between 1939 and 1947 that were not documented in Gordon Bruce's book. I have looked at them in some detail over the years and perhaps at some point, I'll put some words together. Are both of the grips marked 'Webley'? and is the Senior serial or batch numbered?

A nice find and an interesting time to research.

John

[45flint]

There are quite a few 'transitional' variants made between 1939 and 1947 that were not documented in Gordon Bruce's book. I have looked at them in some detail over the years and perhaps at some point, I'll put some words together. Are both of the grips marked 'Webley'? and is the Senior serial or batch numbered?

A nice find and an interesting time to research.

John

There is no serial number and there is a batch number. The grips have Webley embossed. So it seems to be a typical “early” post war pistol except for the pre-war trigger. Bruce really doesn’t specifically say when the new trigger started so he’s leaving me to assume they may have started with the prewar trigger at first? I will have the gun in a few days and will post pics. Fingers crossed it looked to be in amazing shape.

[Josie & John]

There is no serial number and there is a batch number. The grips have Webley embossed. So it seems to be a typical “early” post war pistol except for the pre-war trigger. Bruce really doesn’t specifically say when the new trigger started so he’s leaving me to assume they may have started with the prewar trigger at first? I will have the gun in a few days and will post pics. Fingers crossed it looked to be in amazing shape.

I think you have dated the pistol perfectly; probably 1945-46.

Sounds like another interesting addition!

John

[45flint]

I think you have dated the pistol perfectly; probably 1945-46.

Sounds like another interesting addition!

John

Fun to think of it being made right after the Wars end. Must have been a certain joy in returning to making air pistols from war materiel?

[Josie & John]

Fun to think of it being made right after the Wars end. Must have been a certain joy in returning to making air pistols from war materiel?

Yes indeed. Webley exported much of the early post war production to raise currency that was not £ Sterling. I recently acquired a boxed 1947 dated Senior with provenance, which I'll feature in Airgun World in the near future. I bought it to replace a similar boxed pistol that didn't have any provenance but is nearly identical in terms of pistol features and box style.

John

[45flint]

There are quite a few 'transitional' variants made between 1939 and 1947 that were not documented in Gordon Bruce's book. I have looked at them in some detail over the years and perhaps at some point, I'll put some words together. Are both of the grips marked 'Webley'? and is the Senior serial or batch numbered?

A nice find and an interesting time to research.

John

I reread your questions and didn’t notice you asked if both sides of the grip were embossed with Webley. I looked at the pics again I am really surprised I never noticed only one side has Webley embossing. I looked at those pics over and over looking for each little variation, missed a pretty obvious one. lol. Talk about a transitional gun, lol

Were they using up the last of the prewar grips as well as the triggers?

[Geezer]

Yes indeed. Webley exported much of the early post war production to raise currency that was not £ Sterling. I recently acquired a boxed 1947 dated Senior with provenance, which I'll feature in Airgun World in the near future. I bought it to replace a similar boxed pistol that didn't have any provenance but is nearly identical in terms of pistol features and box style.

John

Indeed. All British industry in the post-war period was focussed on exports. A policy of the Ministry of Supply. No surprise that this particular gun ended up in the US. It is hinted at in Gordon Bruce’s book, but clearer in Chris Thrales’ Webley rifle book, quoting press releases from the early 50s on the Mark III rifle about how exports had previously taken priority over the domestic market.

For example, if you wanted to buy a Jaguar XK120 when it came out in 1948, you could if you paid in foreign (preferably dollars) currency, but not in pounds in the UK.

[Josie & John]

I reread your questions and didn’t notice you asked if both sides of the grip were embossed with Webley. I looked at the pics again I am really surprised I never noticed only one side has Webley embossing. I looked at those pics over and over looking for each little variation, missed a pretty obvious one. lol. Talk about a transitional gun, lol

Were they using up the last of the prewar grips as well as the triggers?

It is not unusual to find Seniors from this era with one grip marked Webley and the other plain. I think assemblers were probably grabbing whichever grips came to hand first out of a box and fitting them. It's another pointer to the transitional nature of these pistols.

John

[45flint]

It is not unusual to find Seniors from this era with one grip marked Webley and the other plain. I think assemblers were probably grabbing whichever grips came to hand first out of a box and fitting them. It's another pointer to the transitional nature of these pistols.

John

I bet as they used the plain grips up they put the embossed grip on the same side as the brass emblem on the Straight Grip Seniors, true of mine? The brass emblems with these were only on one side, would seem perfectly proper?

Are there any examples of non serial number Seniors with 2 plain grips?

[Josie & John]

I bet as they used the plain grips up they put the embossed grip on the same side as the brass emblem on the Straight Grip Seniors, true of mine? The brass emblems with these were only on one side, would seem perfectly proper?

Are there any examples of non serial number Seniors with 2 plain grips?

That was my initial thought too but I also know of Seniors with grips fitted the other way around, in that the Webley marked grip is the one fitted to the right side of the grip frame and lies against the base of the box/case. I don't know of any of the 'later' batch numbered Seniors with plain unmarked grips but finding such an example may not necessarily mean the pistol is 'wrong'.

John

[Dutch]

Nice find! Its more likely however that the newer grip is a replacement!

[45flint]

Nice find! Its more likely however that the newer grip is a replacement!

I doubt that: the gun is as new not a mark on it. It’s has all the characteristics of a transitional gun from 1946-7? It’s seems that during this time it was not unusual to have the two types of grips on the same gun. See Johns comments above. They used up what they had, just like the earlier slim trigger. Fun having one that’s a little different but it’s more treasured by me given its perfect condition and I do think the slimmer trigger is more elegant?, and these back then were blued very well.