Lincoln Jeffries pistol project Part 3. - Finished at last!

[ccdjg]

Thank you gentlemen for your encouraging comments. I will carry on with my projects, spurred on by my interest in spring pistols and helped further by all the crap on television these days. In fact I have already started my next build project and hope to report back in due course.

Write a book on my projects? Nice idea, but I really would be too embarassed to expose my lack of a real engineering background.

[ggggr]

Well done on the project John. A good job ---but is it fun to plink with?
I thought the front of the gun reminded me of a Webley Tempest (that has the plastic shroud that makes the cylinder look almost the same diameter) and wondered if you know why the Webley pistols had a stepped cylinder and frame? Was it to do with how the pistol looked, something to do with the balance or something different?
While it was never a prototype (as far as I know) can I suggest another project for you at some point? I'd like to see a Webley Mk1 in the manner of a Junior --------as there is something about the looks of the Junior with that frame.
Do you shoot the guns you makeor is the fun in the making of them?

[Huttles94]

Thank you gentlemen for your encouraging comments. I will carry on with my projects, spurred on by my interest in spring pistols and helped further by all the crap on television these days. In fact I have already started my next build project and hope to report back in due course.

Write a book on my projects? Nice idea, but I really would be too embarassed to expose my lack of a real engineering background.

Lack of engineering background? Ha, its not about how you get there, its about the results. And might I say, you do deliver.

[JimmieDee]

Looks superb John! Very well done indeed.

[ccdjg]

Well done on the project John. A good job ---but is it fun to plink with?
I thought the front of the gun reminded me of a Webley Tempest (that has the plastic shroud that makes the cylinder look almost the same diameter) and wondered if you know why the Webley pistols had a stepped cylinder and frame? Was it to do with how the pistol looked, something to do with the balance or something different?
While it was never a prototype (as far as I know) can I suggest another project for you at some point? I'd like to see a Webley Mk1 in the manner of a Junior --------as there is something about the looks of the Junior with that frame.
Do you shoot the guns you makeor is the fun in the making of them?

Well Guy, I would say that the pistol is OK to plink with for a short time, until the palm of your hand gets sore. Given the choice, I would prefer a Webley any day.

I do shoot my guns and like to compare them, but the main reasons for making them are first, I enjoy doing it, and second, I am a bit of a scientific collector and am interested in the mechanisms. So if a gun never made it to manufacture, this is the only way I can get to try them out. Surprisingly I find the weird twist-grip pistol I made a while back the most fun to use, despite its awkward pellet loading method and its low power. There is something about the push-twist-push-click cocking sequence that is so smooth and natural compared to other cocking systems. It would never have caught on though because of the low power it gives.

As to the Webleys, I can only assume that the stepped cylinder profile was partly cosmetic and partly to reduce the weight. A Webley Junior sort of structure would be a very difficult to make. I did something like it with the Hill pistol and I have no desire to do it again for quite a while.

[Mark D]

Another great build John, looking forward to the next one already

[johnbaz]

Ooooh!!

Fabulous workmanship!!


John

[walnutfarmmick]

Only one word - WOW!!!

If I was wearing a hat I'd take it off to you.

ATB, Mick

[nige346]

Awesome work, looks fantastic

To you sir, a very big "WELL DONE" and thanks for a great write up of the project and progress

atb
Nige

[Buck25]

Comparing your magnificent pieces to the designs shown in your Spring Air Pistol book is just astonishing. I thought that your book was impressive but your talent is definitely not limited to writing. I know I am one of many who can't wait to see your next project(s). With a weakness for the 19th century air pistols, I would love to see you explore this area. Whatever the next project will be, I am sure that it too will be awesome. So envious of your talents.

[ccdjg]

Thanks again for your kind comments.

My next project will complete the set of non-manufactured British pistols that were patented between 1900 and 1950, something I have wanted to do for a long time. There are 6 altogether, the first shown here, the BSA-Norman pistol was not made by me, but by Mac Evans. The last one is now work in progress and is a 1946 patent from Frank Clarke Lead Products (GB 592,561). I like to think that if it had ever made into the market place it would have been called the Thunderbolt Senior, as it is like a larger version of the Thunderbolt Junior from the same company, with the same grip cocking principle and differing mainly in being non-concentric.

After that? Well, I also like the 19th century guns, and in fact my first effort was a repro' bellows pistol, so that is probably where I will go next.

[Garvin]

Seeing these six together I'm struck by the variety of cocking methods employed: two overlever, two (different) grip cocking, an underlever and a backstrap! So much simpler to use the barrel doubled up as cocking lever...

Before you move back in time, another pistol that you could make, John, is the Webley design with a rear-hinged barrel as in the Johnstone & Fearn original patent. You could 'borrow' a complete Mk1 as the basis for this, which would save a lot of effort!

Edit: looking at the six again, it really underlines how mad it was that the Parker crank pistol went into production. How did they think it was a money-making runner?!

[Abasmajor]

rear-hinged barrel[/URL] as in the Johnstone & Fearn original patent. You could 'borrow' a complete Mk1 as the basis for this, which would save a lot of effort!!

Hello Danny,

I have a Certus pistol which as you know cocks in the reverse direction to the Webley and apart from looking like something Wallace & Grommet might have invented, it is a real pain to use.

Regards
Brian

[Garvin]

Hello Danny,

I have a Certus pistol which as you know cocks in the reverse direction to the Webley and apart from looking like something Wallace & Grommet might have invented, it is a real pain to use.

Regards
Brian

Hi Brian. Presumably that's how Cogswell & Harrison got around the Webley patent, by taking up an idea rejected by Webley?! In terms of the barrel being the cocking device and lying flat along the top of the cylinder, anyway.

The Wallace & Grommet appearance of the Certus seems to be to do with having the barrel hinged at the back, but the piston still travelling from front towards the back, same as the eventual adopted Webley pattern. That's my understanding from the patent drawing anyway.

Whereas the abandoned Webley design has the opposite direction of piston travel, with the transfer port running back through the centre of the piston before going up behind the barrel!

Or am I mistaken?

On second thoughts, maybe best not to make the ditched Webley pistol - it doesn't seem very good.

[Abasmajor]

Hi Brian. Presumably that's how Cogswell & Harrison got around the Webley patent, by taking up an idea rejected by Webley?! In terms of the barrel being the cocking device and lying flat along the top of the cylinder, anyway.

The Wallace & Grommet appearance of the Certus seems to be to do with having the barrel hinged at the back, but the piston still travelling from front towards the back, same as the eventual adopted Webley pattern. That's my understanding from the patent drawing anyway.

Whereas the abandoned Webley design has the opposite direction of piston travel, with the transfer port running back through the centre of the piston before going up behind the barrel!

Or am I mistaken?

On second thoughts, maybe best not to make the ditched Webley pistol - it doesn't seem very good.

Hi Danny,

I suppose Webley included the possibility of cocking their pistol from the opposite end in their patent to preclude somebody from doing just that, impractical as that may seem to have been. It's my understanding that the possibility of infringement of the Wenley Patent 219872 was a contributory factor to ending production of the Certus. As you rightly say, given the compactness and efficiency of the Webley design, it's surprising that respected gun makers such as Cogswell & Harrison and A.G.Parker believed that the Certus or Parker pistols would have a chance against the Webley. In my experience, the only pistol that came close to the Webley was the ABAS Major with its concentric barrel, tap loading and ratchet safety cocking lever offering superior features to the Webley, Unfortunately, these advantages would have come at an increased price which would meant the pistol would have been at a commercial disadvantage in a financially sensitive environment.

Regards
Brian