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Thread: 45/70

  1. #1
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    45/70

    Anyone shoot a Pedersoli Trapdoor carbine.?? Can they take factory loads.?? Years ago I had a Harrington and Richards officer model
    trapdoor which I loved but there was issues that meant I took it back where I bought it. The Pedersoli has a different lock up but are
    they any stronger,?????

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim56 View Post
    Anyone shoot a Pedersoli Trapdoor carbine.?? Can they take factory loads.?? Years ago I had a Harrington and Richards officer model
    trapdoor which I loved but there was issues that meant I took it back where I bought it. The Pedersoli has a different lock up but are
    they any stronger,?????

    The H&R version of the Allin conversion had a two-piece extractor - actually screwed together instead of being made un one [pricey] forging. This led to the occasional 'unloading while going bang' syndrome as the extractor let go during ignition. H&R provided a fix in the USA, but I don't know how many made it here.

    The Pedersoli version has a one piece unit, and I've never heard of any problems from that direction. By factory ammunition, do you mean modern jacketed ammuntion as used in the Ruger #1 or Marlin whatever it's called?

    I most certainly do NOT advise using such fodder in ANY Trapdoor Springfield design. I don't shoot anything but lead in my Winchester High Wall - a much stronger action than the Allin breechloading design.

    Remember that the original of this design entered service in 1873, with a black powder load of 70gr behind a 405g gr solid lead bullet. The maximum pressure load [SAAMI] for this BP cartridge is 25,000 psi. IOW, keep your loads in the region of this by using BP or any of the subs at around 60gr, or a suitably downloaded nitro load. Why so low? Well, trying to get 70gr of 3Fg into the modern case - AND the long bullet - is like trying to put toothpase back into the tube. I've been shooting .45-70 Govt (the correct nomenclature) for about fify years, and can advise you that trying to make the TDS shoot like a Marlin or Ruger #1 is fraught with disappointment, and possibly, danger. The TDS was NOT designed to shoot jacketed bullets of any kind, although low loads of nitro propellant that virtually duplicate the lower-side of the original loads are entirely possible.

    Given that this is an informative subject, and that you probably have the same loading manuals as I do, be advised that up to 100m or so a good load is a .405gr flat nose lead bullet over 32gr of IMR4198. If you can finagle yourself a drop tube, then you just might get 60gr of Pyrodex RS or even 3Fg into the case, but you'll end up compressing the load somewhat. There are special dies that you can buy to help you do this consistently, but then a spare bullet seating die can do it just as well - I use 1/8th compression on a 50gr load and it works out just fine.

    There is a LOT of advice on Youtube - Murpheysmuskets is good news.

    Whatever it is that you do, PLEASE don't try and make it into something it never was - enjoy it for what it is - a piece of history.

    You can see my High Wall in use by a pal's son on Youtube - tac's guns High Wall. You certainly know it's gone bang, but it's not going to blow you out of the back of the firing point on your ass with your legs in the air.

    tac
    Several guns and trains.

  3. #3
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    Many Thanks for the info tac. Thats exactly the problem I had with the H&R. Bang, what was that that just nicked my forehead.!! Scary.
    Iv had several 45/70 rifles over the years and currently shoot a Pedersoli Sharpes long range in 45/90. Lovely rifle but weighs a ton and
    not really suitable for 50 yard plinking which I like to do. I sold my 45/70 Ruger number 1 a while back and want something lighter than
    the Sharpes but don't want another Ruger. A mate has a new Marlin in 45/70 which is nice to shoot but I prefer single shot rifles that I
    can also use with B/P. I cast my own 405 grain bullets which are delight to shoot over 12 grains of Unique or 55 grains of B/P. Iv seen a
    couple of Pedersoli carbine trapdoors but don't want anymore opening top problems.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim56 View Post
    Many Thanks for the info tac. Thats exactly the problem I had with the H&R. Bang, what was that that just nicked my forehead.!! Scary.
    Iv had several 45/70 rifles over the years and currently shoot a Pedersoli Sharpes long range in 45/90. Lovely rifle but weighs a ton and
    not really suitable for 50 yard plinking which I like to do. I sold my 45/70 Ruger number 1 a while back and want something lighter than
    the Sharpes but don't want another Ruger. A mate has a new Marlin in 45/70 which is nice to shoot but I prefer single shot rifles that I
    can also use with B/P. I cast my own 405 grain bullets which are delight to shoot over 12 grains of Unique or 55 grains of B/P. Iv seen a
    couple of Pedersoli carbine trapdoors but don't want anymore opening top problems.
    As I wrote in my post, the problem was cost-cutting by Harrington and Richardson - Pedersoli's ejector is made in one piece, and does not have anything to come loose and allow the breech block to unlock.

    You choose.

    My sub-BP load makes a two-inch 50 shot hole at 50m.

    tac
    Several guns and trains.

  5. #5
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    How about considering a rolling block?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frog View Post
    How about considering a rolling block?
    Good idea. I second that.

    Especially in an original calibre that is not .45-70Govt.

    tac
    Several guns and trains.

  7. #7
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    Had a couple of Rollers in 45/70. In fact I owned one of em twice. Excellent rifle if you can find one at sensible
    money. Iv got the 34" Sharps so fancy something lighter to shoot while standing. May even end up chopping
    the Sharps in as I only use it a couple of times a year at Beckingham.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim56 View Post
    Had a couple of Rollers in 45/70. In fact I owned one of em twice. Excellent rifle if you can find one at sensible
    money. Iv got the 34" Sharps so fancy something lighter to shoot while standing. May even end up chopping
    the Sharps in
    as I only use it a couple of times a year at Beckingham.
    Explain, please?

    tac
    Several guns and trains.

  9. #9
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    As in part exchange it towards another rifle.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim56 View Post
    As in part exchange it towards another rifle.
    Ah, thank you. What is the derivation of this phrase? Please PM me with the answer in case people get upset that I haven't started another thread about the use of English in the vernacular.

    tac
    Several guns and trains.

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