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Thread: Record Champion Pistol

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Record Champion Pistol

    Hi All, I've been given a Record Champion pistol to try and fix for the owner.

    I've managed to strip it and the very strange oval piston seal appears badly damaged; it looks like the consequence of dry firing. I've tested the piston unit in the compression chamber and it doesn't produce any form of seal due to its condition.

    Parts don't appear to be available and there's very little information on how to strip and rebuild the gun as to be honest I found it difficult to get apart.

    I'd be grateful for any help or suggestions, especially knowledge of servicing these.

    Thanks

    BM

  2. #2
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    Someone must have come across one of these pistols?

  3. #3
    ccdjg is offline Airgun Alchemist, Collector and Scribe
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    You may have trouble getting specific information for the Champion as they are quite complicated and also rare, so few will have tackled repairing them. Why not consider its relative, the Record Jumbo, as a possible model, as it too has the oval piston seal, which would have been made out of the same material? Jimmy Dee has provided an excellent stripdown guide for the Jumbo and explains how he dealt with the problem of a crumbling seal https://www.facebook.com/notes/jimmi...34282330002971. He had one machined specially, so you could contact him (he is on this forum, as JimmieDee) for more information. I personally would make my own seal from PTFE sheet and a Stanley knife. It might not be as efficient as an original, but at least you would be able to get the gun working.

  4. #4
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    I have stripped one of these. They're not too hard once you understand the mindset of FB. Most people don't realise the the muzzle is a "nut" that needs to be unscrewed. Once that's done I think the rest follows fairly well.

    As for the seal though, you can't get these anymore. A friend tried to make some but the material is too hard really. It needs a bit of flex to make a good seal. Ideally one would try again and make a groove around the perimeter to fit an o-ring. However you also need to seal around the barrel too.

    If I was to try to make another seal, I would attempt to make one from thick leather. It will swell a little with oil and seal the pistol better although the friction could reduce the power a little.

    Other than the piston seal, the other very brittle part is the little plastic pellet probe. If do not follow the cocking procedure, it's going to snap. You might be able to make a replacement using a 3D printer.

    A few people have asked how to service the Champion.... it's about time I wrote a guide!

    All the best,
    Jimmie

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    I have a few oval seals if anyone needs one They are original replacement seals.
    "But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not comprised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed."
    Winston Churchill 1930

  6. #6
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    Seals.

    Yes please.
    I would like one.
    PM sent.
    costalot

  7. #7
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    Firstly thanks for your help and advice, very much appreciated.

    I've fully stripped the gun, I managed to do it without unscrewing the muzzle, it was a job but I managed it; I presume the six holes at the front allow the muzzle to be unscrewed.

    I'd welcome your guide as it appears I must have got some of the machanics of the trigger sears wrong as the gun won't click, it jams half way on the stroke. I'll send you my email address if that's ok?

    Yes please Mr Gen, I'll pm you my address.

    Kind regards

    Andy

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmax View Post
    Firstly thanks for your help and advice, very much appreciated.

    I've fully stripped the gun, I managed to do it without unscrewing the muzzle, it was a job but I managed it; I presume the six holes at the front allow the muzzle to be unscrewed.

    I'd welcome your guide as it appears I must have got some of the machanics of the trigger sears wrong as the gun won't click, it jams half way on the stroke. I'll send you my email address if that's ok?

    Yes please Mr Gen, I'll pm you my address.

    Kind regards

    Andy
    Yes, you unscrew the muzzle nut with a pair of straight nosed circlip pliers through the holes in the nut. That make assembly and disassembly much easier.

    I've emailed you a photo of the parts laid out as they are fitted to the pistol along with instructions.

    All the best,
    Jimmie

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmieDee View Post
    Yes, you unscrew the muzzle nut with a pair of straight nosed circlip pliers through the holes in the nut. That make assembly and disassembly much easier.

    I've emailed you a photo of the parts laid out as they are fitted to the pistol along with instructions.

    All the best,
    Jimmie
    Thanks for all your help Jimmie, very much appreciated.

    Andy

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Location
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    Seized muzzle nut

    Hi Jimmie,
    I have a champion in good nick but running at 1.5 ftlbs.
    Got a new seal ready to install but can’t for the life of me undo the barrel nut.
    Got appropriate circlip pliers, heated it a bit, used penetrant and even given it a little tap but can unsieze it.

    Is it possible to strip it without removing the barrel?
    I’ve removed the pellet insertor but cannot get the top casing off, there’s something stopping it lifting off completely and I don’t want to force it.

    Cheers,

    Matt.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmieDee View Post
    I have stripped one of these. They're not too hard once you understand the mindset of FB. Most people don't realise the the muzzle is a "nut" that needs to be unscrewed. Once that's done I think the rest follows fairly well.

    As for the seal though, you can't get these anymore. A friend tried to make some but the material is too hard really. It needs a bit of flex to make a good seal. Ideally one would try again and make a groove around the perimeter to fit an o-ring. However you also need to seal around the barrel too.

    If I was to try to make another seal, I would attempt to make one from thick leather. It will swell a little with oil and seal the pistol better although the friction could reduce the power a little.

    Other than the piston seal, the other very brittle part is the little plastic pellet probe. If do not follow the cocking procedure, it's going to snap. You might be able to make a replacement using a 3D printer.

    A few people have asked how to service the Champion.... it's about time I wrote a guide!

    All the best,
    Jimmie

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Hereford
    Posts
    394
    Unfortunately you need to remove the barrel nut. There is nothing else holding the muzzle nut in place. You probably just need to "crack" it loose. Stick the gun in a vice so you then have both hands on the circlip pliers. Alternatively, you could make a tool from a hex socket. Grind / cut it to make some (maybe two) pins to fit the muzzle nut. Then you can fit a larger bar for more leverage. Good luck!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmieDee View Post
    Unfortunately you need to remove the barrel nut. There is nothing else holding the muzzle nut in place. You probably just need to "crack" it loose. Stick the gun in a vice so you then have both hands on the circlip pliers. Alternatively, you could make a tool from a hex socket. Grind / cut it to make some (maybe two) pins to fit the muzzle nut. Then you can fit a larger bar for more leverage. Good luck!
    Ok,
    Thanks Jimmie,

    I’ll mak a decent tool, circlip pliers are too unstable.

    Cheers,
    Matt.

  13. #13
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    I managed of with circlip pliers. I bought some heavy duty ones from Screwfix. There are four in a case. I originally bought them for work on another airgun and had to grind down the ends on one for it to fit. They are very strong pliers. The trick is to use the 90 degree angled pliers and make sure they are deeply inserted into the holes and keep one hand pressing down at the muzzle nut and the other on the handles to turn the nut.

  14. #14
    Join Date
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    Location
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    I broke a pair of circlip pliers doing it so used thicker electricians pliers.

    I have however made a tool for similar applications, it consists of a bar with holes down it with bolts going through it and the end of threads removed so as not to mark the part. Ideal pepperpot type dump valves too.

  15. #15
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    London
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    Bingo

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmieDee View Post
    I managed of with circlip pliers. I bought some heavy duty ones from Screwfix. There are four in a case. I originally bought them for work on another airgun and had to grind down the ends on one for it to fit. They are very strong pliers. The trick is to use the 90 degree angled pliers and make sure they are deeply inserted into the holes and keep one hand pressing down at the muzzle nut and the other on the handles to turn the nut.
    It worked!

    I did exactly as you said above, they were the heavy duty circlip pliers, which I ground down a bit for a snugger fit.

    I've been wanting to get this apart for ages, finally put a new seal in and it's upped the power a bit so that's good.

    Thanks for the advice.

    Do these take a standard sized spring? would be nice to fit a new spring too.


    Cheers,

    Matt.

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