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Thread: first load in 223

  1. #1
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    first load in 223

    hi all

    so to start totally new to reloading got a tikka t3x 223 with 1:8 twist , the first bullet am going to try to reload is a tipped sierra matchking 69gn and swiss RS40 powder going with the swiss book i got with the powder my min charge is 21.3gn and max charge 23.9gn , so am going to start at the low end first but what increments do i move up is .1 or .2 increments big enough to see a difference ?

    also c.o.a.l

    tell me if am doing this right or wrong probably , i made up a dummy round on purpose to long put in to rifle and tried the bolt wouldn't close moved the seating depth in very small touches an 8th to 16th of a turn on the seating die each time until my bolt would close smoothly . the measurement i got was 2.275 this was to long for my mag so i continued to seat deeper to fit my mag this measurement is now 2.250 do i go with this measurement ? being a bit of a will i won't i person i checked some measurements on some shop bought ammo and they all range from 2.149 to 2.197 and the lee reloading book tells me my c.o.a.l is 2.260 so am i good to go at 2.250 or should i bring it deeper???

    sorry if its a bit long winded

    all the best del

  2. #2
    Randy Bohannon's Avatar
    Randy Bohannon is offline “Junes1 is a whining bellend”
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    Hi Del, congratulations on your new purchase and well done for getting into reloading.

    The very best thing you can do, what you must do in my humble opinion, is to get hold of a copy of Modern Reloading by Richard Lee.

    The questions you as are good ones but ones that a basic grounding in home loading would answer for you. The issue is that there are all manner of other small factors and caveats that a new home-loader needs to know more than charge increments and OAL.

    There have been a few questions on this forum lately that would benefit from a sticky or something on basic reloading.

    In short however; try 0.2 grain increments, shoot five round groups, start at the OAL given in the load manual and full length resize and trim your brass.
    "An infinite number of monkeys banging away at type writers for an infinite period of time will eventually reproduce Hamlet" Thanks to discussion forums we now know this to be untrue.

  3. #3
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    as amir said.....if its used for hunting then you are restricted to mag size

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Bohannon View Post
    Hi Del, congratulations on your new purchase and well done for getting into reloading.

    The very best thing you can do, what you must do in my humble opinion, is to get hold of a copy of Modern Reloading by Richard Lee.
    thanks randy yep av got the above reloading book and slowly making my way through it

    cheers del

  5. #5
    Randy Bohannon's Avatar
    Randy Bohannon is offline “Junes1 is a whining bellend”
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    Good stuff Del.

    aim to have one calibre’s worth of bullet shank in the neck the neck and go from there.
    "An infinite number of monkeys banging away at type writers for an infinite period of time will eventually reproduce Hamlet" Thanks to discussion forums we now know this to be untrue.

  6. #6
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    I have the older T3 in .223 and 1:8

    I've found it seems to shoot everything I load for it sub 1". The first load I tried to just run it in shot 1/2" groups so didn't bother doing any more development. I shoot the 77s for longer ranges and forgot to reset the seating die when going back to 69s for bench. Still shot 2/3" groups.

    I normally load to 2.265, which sounds in the same ballpark you are looking at.

    In the three years I've had it I must have shot 300+ rounds at 100 yards at a target and probably only 1 outside of that inch group, and that was probably me.

    I have replaced the trigger spring with the £10 one sold online, to lighten it further. And I've got a plastic sledge to allow singe loads, the bullets fit but for long range target I like to load one at a time. Is it still needed on the T3X as a mate with a .308 could just top load his?

    I've always found as long as the powder is in the ball park its col that gives you accuracy. I will eventually be doing some load development for mine, but think I might shoot better than I can hold it!

    Great rifle.

  7. #7
    phil384's Avatar
    phil384 is offline Likes to eat trifle wearing scuba gear
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    Hopefully not hijacking this thread......

    I bought some brand new PPU cases and when I use the Lee hand cutting tool to cut the cases back down to size it seems to be taking LOTS off, and I mean a couple of mm of neck. I've checked and the stud is seated in the cutter properly.

    Do PPU cases have silly long necks?
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by phil384 View Post
    Do PPU cases have silly long necks?
    You can answer your own question. Once the 2mm is taken off, do they measure the right length or way too small?

  9. #9
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    I have replaced the trigger spring with the £10 one sold online, to lighten it further. And I've got a plastic sledge to allow singe loads, the bullets fit but for long range target I like to load one at a time. Is it still needed on the T3X as a mate with a .308 could just top load his?
    i have just been looking at the same two things lighter trigger spring (is this easy to install) and the single load adapter for mag and yep with the t3x you do need one to single load for the 223 anyway

    cheers del
    Last edited by bullbarrel; 12-08-2018 at 08:23 PM.

  10. #10
    Randy Bohannon's Avatar
    Randy Bohannon is offline “Junes1 is a whining bellend”
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    Quote Originally Posted by phil384 View Post
    Hopefully not hijacking this thread......

    I bought some brand new PPU cases and when I use the Lee hand cutting tool to cut the cases back down to size it seems to be taking LOTS off, and I mean a couple of mm of neck. I've checked and the stud is seated in the cutter properly.

    Do PPU cases have silly long necks?
    They can do Phil, measure and compare to the Saami “trim to” length.

    they can also stretch a lot after the first firing and resizing.
    "An infinite number of monkeys banging away at type writers for an infinite period of time will eventually reproduce Hamlet" Thanks to discussion forums we now know this to be untrue.

  11. #11
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    well guys i seated at 2.250"c o a l done loads 21.4gn , 21.6gn 21.8gn and 22gn so far all grouped with in 1" at 100yds av just made up my second batch going up 22.2gn , 22.4 , 22.6 and 22.8 just waiting on the weather to calm down and see how they go

    thanks for your help
    atb Del
    Last edited by del; 27-08-2018 at 09:51 PM.

  12. #12
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    well here are some of the results still playing with it all shot at 100yds the low shot on the 21.4 gn was me i pulled the shot then 3 all within an 1inch done 21.4 again just to check and still got to do 22.6 and up going to do 22.4 again as


    sorry tried to put pics of targets up but this forum is murder for gettin pics up

    https://www.full-bore.co.uk/download...2993&mode=view

  13. #13
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    Re: .223 Remington case trimming - SAAMI Document 1992 Page 41 - 1.760" - 44.70mm - minimum length 1.720" - 44.50mm.

    Firearms made in Europe/Scandinavia or for European/Scandinavian markets will have been made to CIP specifications and dimensions - CIP figure for .223 Remington - 44.70mm - no allowance for minimum length.

  14. #14
    Parabuteo is offline My Chrony has bought it a couple of times...
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    Del.

    Dont dick about with the OAL and the load at the same time mate. Both will affect the group size, so you wont know what made things worse...if they get worse.

    Looking at you loads I would say you have a reasonable amount of room for adjustment. I am shooting 77s over a compressed load of RS52 at 24.6. I am not suggesting you just go and do this, but most of us would see 24gr as a good point with 77gr SMK, so you have a way you can work up to mate. This fairly well replicates the M262 Mod 1 Blackhills match 5.56 loads.

    Because we use mags, we are stuck with mag length (you can hand load but for CSR this wont work). However, the excess length has to go somewhere so it ends up compressing the powder in the case. There are some thoughts that this MAY produce a more consistent burn, I dont know, but certainly I have never had any adverse effects.

    When you are stuck with mag length, you may not be able to produce the ideal distance off the landes. The main reason to do this is to arrest the bullet momentarilly to allow a peak pressure to build and give a more consistant let off point and harmonic. It is why some of the BR farternity soft seat (allowing the bullet to touch the landes and move back into the case rather than jamming into it).

    In many ways this is good news, because it means you only have to mess with the load, however, you may also find that your group reduces in size if you factory crimp the bullet into the neck. This has a similar effect to loading into the landes, and you can be quite harsh with the crimp as it should not cause any issues (Lee's words, not mine). I crimp all of my calibres and have had groups improve with all 3.

    Dont feel that you need to crimp, all I am saying is that there is no ideal 1 size fits all load workup, even 2 identical rifles made at the same time may differ. A friend of mine is about to shoot in a pair of identical BAR15s to it will be interesting to see how it goes.
    I'm a maggot in another life you know

  15. #15
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    Don’t know if this helps but you’re welcome to try:
    Optimum load for my RPA 1:10 twist 69g match kings
    RS40 22.2 grains
    COAL 2.253
    I’m getting 5 shot groups of .4” @ 100 yards
    I tested 10 different loads from 21.3 - 23.9 and the above formula really stood out from the rest.
    All shot using a front bench rest and rear bag.
    I did start off with 2.26 coal but reduced it slightly as the bolt wouldn’t close on a couple of round during initial testing so I figured it was getting a bit too close to the max length.
    I’m new to reloading so happy with anything .5” or less at 100 yards.
    They have performed well at 300 & 600 yards.
    Best of luck

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