first load in 223

[Randy Bohannon]

Hopefully not hijacking this thread......

I bought some brand new PPU cases and when I use the Lee hand cutting tool to cut the cases back down to size it seems to be taking LOTS off, and I mean a couple of mm of neck. I've checked and the stud is seated in the cutter properly.

Do PPU cases have silly long necks?

They can do Phil, measure and compare to the Saami “trim to” length.

they can also stretch a lot after the first firing and resizing.

[del]

well guys i seated at 2.250"c o a l done loads 21.4gn , 21.6gn 21.8gn and 22gn so far all grouped with in 1" at 100yds av just made up my second batch going up 22.2gn , 22.4 , 22.6 and 22.8 just waiting on the weather to calm down and see how they go

thanks for your help
atb Del

[del]

well here are some of the results still playing with it all shot at 100yds the low shot on the 21.4 gn was me i pulled the shot then 3 all within an 1inch done 21.4 again just to check and still got to do 22.6 and up going to do 22.4 again as


sorry tried to put pics of targets up but this forum is murder for gettin pics up

https://www.full-bore.co.uk/download...2993&mode=view

[tacfoley]

Re: .223 Remington case trimming - SAAMI Document 1992 Page 41 - 1.760" - 44.70mm - minimum length 1.720" - 44.50mm.

Firearms made in Europe/Scandinavia or for European/Scandinavian markets will have been made to CIP specifications and dimensions - CIP figure for .223 Remington - 44.70mm - no allowance for minimum length.

[Parabuteo]

Del.

Dont dick about with the OAL and the load at the same time mate. Both will affect the group size, so you wont know what made things worse...if they get worse.

Looking at you loads I would say you have a reasonable amount of room for adjustment. I am shooting 77s over a compressed load of RS52 at 24.6. I am not suggesting you just go and do this, but most of us would see 24gr as a good point with 77gr SMK, so you have a way you can work up to mate. This fairly well replicates the M262 Mod 1 Blackhills match 5.56 loads.

Because we use mags, we are stuck with mag length (you can hand load but for CSR this wont work). However, the excess length has to go somewhere so it ends up compressing the powder in the case. There are some thoughts that this MAY produce a more consistent burn, I dont know, but certainly I have never had any adverse effects.

When you are stuck with mag length, you may not be able to produce the ideal distance off the landes. The main reason to do this is to arrest the bullet momentarilly to allow a peak pressure to build and give a more consistant let off point and harmonic. It is why some of the BR farternity soft seat (allowing the bullet to touch the landes and move back into the case rather than jamming into it).

In many ways this is good news, because it means you only have to mess with the load, however, you may also find that your group reduces in size if you factory crimp the bullet into the neck. This has a similar effect to loading into the landes, and you can be quite harsh with the crimp as it should not cause any issues (Lee's words, not mine). I crimp all of my calibres and have had groups improve with all 3.

Dont feel that you need to crimp, all I am saying is that there is no ideal 1 size fits all load workup, even 2 identical rifles made at the same time may differ. A friend of mine is about to shoot in a pair of identical BAR15s to it will be interesting to see how it goes.

[Chris J]

Don’t know if this helps but you’re welcome to try:
Optimum load for my RPA 1:10 twist 69g match kings
RS40 22.2 grains
COAL 2.253
I’m getting 5 shot groups of .4” @ 100 yards
I tested 10 different loads from 21.3 - 23.9 and the above formula really stood out from the rest.
All shot using a front bench rest and rear bag.
I did start off with 2.26 coal but reduced it slightly as the bolt wouldn’t close on a couple of round during initial testing so I figured it was getting a bit too close to the max length.
I’m new to reloading so happy with anything .5” or less at 100 yards.
They have performed well at 300 & 600 yards.
Best of luck

[Rickee]

Don't forget to anneal your case necks regularly.
Even Lapua cases don't like more than four times reloading without annealing; leading to inconsistent neck tension and vertical stringing.

[del]

Del.

Dont dick about with the OAL and the load at the same time mate. Both will affect the group size, so you wont know what made things worse...if they get worse.

Looking at you loads I would say you have a reasonable amount of room for adjustment. I am shooting 77s over a compressed load of RS52 at 24.6. I am not suggesting you just go and do this, but most of us would see 24gr as a good point with 77gr SMK, so you have a way you can work up to mate. This fairly well replicates the M262 Mod 1 Blackhills match 5.56 loads.

Because we use mags, we are stuck with mag length (you can hand load but for CSR this wont work). However, the excess length has to go somewhere so it ends up compressing the powder in the case. There are some thoughts that this MAY produce a more consistent burn, I dont know, but certainly I have never had any adverse effects.

When you are stuck with mag length, you may not be able to produce the ideal distance off the landes. The main reason to do this is to arrest the bullet momentarilly to allow a peak pressure to build and give a more consistant let off point and harmonic. It is why some of the BR farternity soft seat (allowing the bullet to touch the landes and move back into the case rather than jamming into it).

In many ways this is good news, because it means you only have to mess with the load, however, you may also find that your group reduces in size if you factory crimp the bullet into the neck. This has a similar effect to loading into the landes, and you can be quite harsh with the crimp as it should not cause any issues (Lee's words, not mine). I crimp all of my calibres and have had groups improve with all 3.

Dont feel that you need to crimp, all I am saying is that there is no ideal 1 size fits all load workup, even 2 identical rifles made at the same time may differ. A friend of mine is about to shoot in a pair of identical BAR15s to it will be interesting to see how it goes.

nope not mucking about with oal just wanted them to fit my mag mate . from what av seen and been reading a lot of people don't seem to bother crimping bolt action bullets will prob give it a go once av found my ideal load have to say though am loving it but i need to get myself a decent scale i have the lee scale and i bought a second hand lyman 505 and it seems pretty cack you don't get the same reading twice of it

cheers del

[severnsider]

Del.

Dont dick about with the OAL and the load at the same time mate. Both will affect the group size, so you wont know what made things worse...if they get worse.

Looking at you loads I would say you have a reasonable amount of room for adjustment. I am shooting 77s over a compressed load of RS52 at 24.6. I am not suggesting you just go and do this, but most of us would see 24gr as a good point with 77gr SMK, so you have a way you can work up to mate. This fairly well replicates the M262 Mod 1 Blackhills match 5.56 loads.

Because we use mags, we are stuck with mag length (you can hand load but for CSR this wont work). However, the excess length has to go somewhere so it ends up compressing the powder in the case. There are some thoughts that this MAY produce a more consistent burn, I dont know, but certainly I have never had any adverse effects.

When you are stuck with mag length, you may not be able to produce the ideal distance off the landes. The main reason to do this is to arrest the bullet momentarilly to allow a peak pressure to build and give a more consistant let off point and harmonic. It is why some of the BR farternity soft seat (allowing the bullet to touch the landes and move back into the case rather than jamming into it).

In many ways this is good news, because it means you only have to mess with the load, however, you may also find that your group reduces in size if you factory crimp the bullet into the neck. This has a similar effect to loading into the landes, and you can be quite harsh with the crimp as it should not cause any issues (Lee's words, not mine). I crimp all of my calibres and have had groups improve with all 3.

Dont feel that you need to crimp, all I am saying is that there is no ideal 1 size fits all load workup, even 2 identical rifles made at the same time may differ. A friend of mine is about to shoot in a pair of identical BAR15s to it will be interesting to see how it goes.

I hope I'm not derailing this thread, but I do have a related question which concerns N140 and 77gr SMK. Both Vihtavuori and Sierra (Edition 5) suggest a range of N140 from 21.0 to 24.7gr and 22.3 to 24.5gr respectively. Both also suggest OAL of 2.26". Now, I'm not particularly interested in maximum loads, but there's no way that I can squeeze 24gr of N140 into a .223 case with a 77gr SMK and get an OAL of 2.26". The most I can get in is 21.5gr for that OAL, which is right at the bottom of the weights suggested by both the powder and bullet manufacturers.
Have I missed the blindingly-obvious somewhere along the line?

[kennyc]

I hope I'm not derailing this thread, but I do have a related question which concerns N140 and 77gr SMK. Both Vihtavuori and Sierra (Edition 5) suggest a range of N140 from 21.0 to 24.7gr and 22.3 to 24.5gr respectively. Both also suggest OAL of 2.26". Now, I'm not particularly interested in maximum loads, but there's no way that I can squeeze 24gr of N140 into a .223 case with a 77gr SMK and get an OAL of 2.26". The most I can get in is 21.5gr for that OAL, which is right at the bottom of the weights suggested by both the powder and bullet manufacturers.
Have I missed the blindingly-obvious somewhere along the line?

compressed load? Chris is a beast of a man, he probably can get an odd extra grain in here or there

[bullbarrel]

I hope I'm not derailing this thread, but I do have a related question which concerns N140 and 77gr SMK. Both Vihtavuori and Sierra (Edition 5) suggest a range of N140 from 21.0 to 24.7gr and 22.3 to 24.5gr respectively. Both also suggest OAL of 2.26". Now, I'm not particularly interested in maximum loads, but there's no way that I can squeeze 24gr of N140 into a .223 case with a 77gr SMK and get an OAL of 2.26". The most I can get in is 21.5gr for that OAL, which is right at the bottom of the weights suggested by both the powder and bullet manufacturers.
Have I missed the blindingly-obvious somewhere along the line?

I use this load for shooting on the local range to 600 yards. I use 24gr of N140 and col of 2.650 in my Tikka T3. I don't think its compressed.

Have you measured your rifle's ideal COL? Could be it will give you the room for those extra grains.

Or just load a test round (not primer or powder) to 2.650 and see if it fits in the mag and chamber. If so, try to see how many more grains you can get in

Remember to measure it again when you take it out of the rifle to make sure the bullet hasn't been pushed in a bit.