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Thread: Panorama Legal Weapon!!

  1. #1
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    Panorama Legal Weapon!!

    BBC at Again!
    Panorama investigates how antique guns are being brought into the UK perfectly legally and ending up in the hands of criminals. Panorama buys two handguns, one in America, carrying it through customs, and the other from an antique guns fair in Birmingham. Under current legislation it is legal to buy and sell guns provided commercially manufactured ammunition is no longer available. But criminals are home making ammunition for these antique weapons and then using them to kill. Gloucester gun dealer Paul Edmunds flooded the streets of Birmingham and London with antique guns as well as modern guns passed off as antiques. These weapons have been used in multiple murders. Now West Midlands Police and the National Ballistics Intelligence Service are calling for a change in the law to close this loophole.

  2. #2
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    Interesting when’s it on?
    A man can always use more alcohol, tobacco and firearms.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardH View Post
    Interesting when’s it on?
    The 20th August Richard but not sure of time

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by lew07 View Post
    The 20th August Richard but not sure of time
    August 20th 8-30pm

  5. #5
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    Complain

    Complain to the BBC.
    Certainly after transmission but if possible before. It seems that the BBC are guilty of an offense.
    The items in question must be possessed as "an antique or curio" and not for business purposes.
    They are "using" these firearms which is not covered.
    Interesting.

  6. #6
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    picture appears to show S & W 2nd Model in 38 S&W which I would have thought not antique as ammo is commercially available...?
    and is Sect7,no loophole here to close
    Last edited by craig9mm; 14-08-2018 at 11:25 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fronteria View Post
    BBC at Again!
    Panorama investigates how antique guns are being brought into the UK perfectly legally and ending up in the hands of criminals. Panorama buys two handguns, one in America, carrying it through customs, and the other from an antique guns fair in Birmingham. Under current legislation it is legal to buy and sell guns provided commercially manufactured ammunition is no longer available. But criminals are home making ammunition for these antique weapons and then using them to kill. Gloucester gun dealer Paul Edmunds flooded the streets of Birmingham and London with antique guns as well as modern guns passed off as antiques. These weapons have been used in multiple murders. Now West Midlands Police and the National Ballistics Intelligence Service are calling for a change in the law to close this loophole.
    Ah, what loophole? Buying an obsolete calibre handgun is legal, providing you are over 18 yoa.

    Buying a gun the USA, is simple, providing that you have a UK FAC and the affair set in order to import it. It will usually be shipped directly to the RFD to save you carrying it - which would be illegal in the USA. I don't understand the buying a handgun and carrying through customs bit. How does that work out? Is it an antique C&R type of gun? In which case, unless you have a C&R registration, you STILL could not buy it legally in the USA. To have a C&R you must have a valid state driving license, and have pre-provided information fro the check.

    Purchase of primers without a valid FAC for the type of primers you are buying is impossible here in UK, legally.

    Possession of primers without a valid FAC is an offence.

    Buying primers on-line? How does that work out? Primers are classed as explosives.

    So the laws are already here - possession of a live firearm without an FAC is a criminal offence.

    Making an obsolete firearm into a live one by manufacturing ammunition, without a valid FAC, is a criminal offence. Even possession with intent etc is a criminal offence in this country

    Manufacturing ammunition for which you do not have a valid authority is a criminal offence.

    So, what loopholes are they talking about?

    tac
    Several guns and trains.

  8. #8
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    As usual lads they are misinformed rubbish will set off the antis, another case of people being educated beyond there intelligence and running away with them self’s.

  9. #9
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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by ProHunter View Post
    As usual lads they are misinformed rubbish will set off the antis, another case of people being educated beyond there intelligence and running away with them self’s.
    True, true.
    But our http://www.airgunbbs.com/images/icons/icon8.png MPs are looking for an excuse to take our toys away. They hate it that the Police are outgunned and are paranoid someone will try to kill them.
    If the home Office spent half as much time really tackling crime and not eating away at legitimate shooters and collectors they would at last be of some use to the World.

  10. #10
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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by ProHunter View Post
    As usual lads they are misinformed rubbish will set off the antis, another case of people being educated beyond there intelligence and running away with them self’s.
    True, true.
    But our MPs are looking for an excuse to take our toys away. They hate it that the Police are outgunned and are paranoid someone will try to kill them.
    If the home Office spent half as much time really tackling crime and not eating away at legitimate shooters and collectors they would at last be of some use to the World.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacfoley View Post
    Ah, what loophole? Buying an obsolete calibre handgun is legal, providing you are over 18 yoa.

    Buying a gun the USA, is simple, providing that you have a UK FAC and the affair set in order to import it. It will usually be shipped directly to the RFD to save you carrying it - which would be illegal in the USA. I don't understand the buying a handgun and carrying through customs bit. How does that work out? Is it an antique C&R type of gun? In which case, unless you have a C&R registration, you STILL could not buy it legally in the USA. To have a C&R you must have a valid state driving license, and have pre-provided information fro the check.

    Purchase of primers without a valid FAC for the type of primers you are buying is impossible here in UK, legally.

    Possession of primers without a valid FAC is an offence.

    Buying primers on-line? How does that work out? Primers are classed as explosives.

    So the laws are already here - possession of a live firearm without an FAC is a criminal offence.

    Making an obsolete firearm into a live one by manufacturing ammunition, without a valid FAC, is a criminal offence. Even possession with intent etc is a criminal offence in this country

    Manufacturing ammunition for which you do not have a valid authority is a criminal offence.

    So, what loopholes are they talking about?

    tac
    The BBC and NABIS are certainly not going to let a few facts get in the way of a good story.

  12. #12
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    That 'expert' from NABIS who gave 'evidence' at the committee stage of this bill is looking to get a name for himself I reckon.

    He LIED TO PARLIAMENT over and over about what people could buy online. He should be sacked and potentially prosecuted.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullbarrel View Post
    That 'expert' from NABIS who gave 'evidence' at the committee stage of this bill is looking to get a name for himself I reckon. He LIED TO PARLIAMENT over and over about what people could buy online. He should be sacked and potentially prosecuted.
    I wrote my MP detailing this guy's statement, pointing out his obvious lies, in spite of contradictory comments from better informed members of the panel.

    So far, I have not received any response.

    tac
    Several guns and trains.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacfoley View Post
    I wrote my MP detailing this guy's statement, pointing out his obvious lies, in spite of contradictory comments from better informed members of the panel.

    So far, I have not received any response.

    tac
    Hi. Tac
    To make a complaint.
    You must get the facts and the only way is to watch and record the programme so you can refer to it in cold blood so to speak, so you might need to play it back a few times.
    You must then complain to the BBC in writing or email with the facts you have gathered, no emotional or flippant comments just pure facts, and make sure your facts are accurate and beyond question. (if you don't complain to the BBC first you will not get any response from the regulator OFCOM.)
    If you don't get a satisfactory answer from the BBC the next step is now to complain to OFCOM the communications regulator who will investigate your complaint.
    The other important thing is for as many people as possible to complain, one or two people complaining has little or no impact, several thousand complaints on the other hand will have a huge impact.

  15. #15
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    Panorama never has any good news to report- every single edition is death, doom & gloom. I call it 'Paranoia', & refuse to watch it anymore. Ditto erstwhile ITV equivalent World In Action, or World In Crisis as I called it.

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